Why is covid ripping through secondary schools?

[noblegiraffe]

As the press seem unable to find some photos of what schools actually look like at the moment, I thought I'd try to find some myself. They aren't current school photos but pretty much reflect the day-to-day.

1st is a typical classroom in terms of space. Fewer kids than normal though.

2nd is a typical corridor (except much cleaner). Yes they are wearing masks but they are also so close as to be touching. Note the kid with the mask half off, nose out, he has probably just been told to put it on by a teacher. What's unusual is that the kids all have a mask and none are being worn on chins. Also, they're on their phones. Tut.

3rd is what a typical break time looks like. Note the clumps of kids and the boys grappling. No masks, obvs.

Any ideas as to why secondary pupils are the most infected subset of the population?

The only bubble that has had to isolate at DS’s school ( approx 1000 pupils) was a sixth former who was new to the school. My money is on them all having had it before the first lock down. It is an independent day school where many pupils would have travelled abroad at Xmas last year and would have skied in Europe over half term.
I did a careers fair in school in Feb, 5 days later I developed a temp and horrendous dry cough followed by altered taste and lost my sense of smell for 3 months. Since it was before Covid was officially in the community I wasn’t tested. I’ve since had a number of prolonged close contacts ( several hours in a car with non mask wearing relative who tested positive 24 hrs later) and have not succumbed.
DH gets the bus to school so mixes with children from other bubbles and schools. They have continued to play sport ( contact although with some restrictions) both at school and club.
There have been some cases but even within families some test positive but others just aren’t being infected.
Local schools are constantly closing bubbles but have only had one or two cases per year throughout the whole term. It just looks like it’s spreading but the self isolation policies mean it looks like a big outbreak. Our local pub had one of the biggest outbreaks when one of the staff was diagnosed. One evenings drinking resulted in at least ten cases.
Either most children are asymptomatic or have immunity.

@SansaSnark

To add, as well as not having the staff, we wouldn't have the classroom space to house an extra class per year group. Where are they being taught?

I get very little from the teen - he can’t remember what he did 15 minutes ago most days 🙄

But deffo not private, the year groups are taught in departments, so they move about a few classrooms. I think he’s in sets for some, not for others. They only leave ‘block’ for PE and tech, and are escorted (according to letters sent out) to these areas. They have lunch outside or in their tutor. Canteen closed, anyone on PP had a lunch brought to them.

I have to say, the school had done my head in a few times over the years, but I respect how they’re dealing with things. They’re VERY strict. Judging by his timetable his teachers are stretched across subjects (I.e not actual fact but an example is his history is taught by a history teacher one lesson a week, but maybe his Spanish teacher another).

It’s a bit all over, but I know they’re trying their best!!!

@noblegiraffe I can't interpret that graph as I am colour blind. What point was it helping you to make? Also, do you have an original source for it?

Either most children are asymptomatic or have immunity.

The infection rate graph suggests asymptomatic.

@2020out I think it’s under subscribed further up the school, but not lower down.

Here they are in black and grey, not

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/11december2020#age-analysis-of-the-number-of-people-in-england-who-had-covid-19

@noblegiraffe thanks. Why did this lead you to say no?

I don't have children - just to make that clear - so I see neighbours' children isolating but don't have a hand in the game myself.
HOWEVER a male friend of mine, in September, reported that on their return to school, his primary school-age children had their first dose of nits within a fortnight. His argument being that if children are in close enough contact to get nits, they're close enough to effortlessly spread coronavirus as well as the usual colds, flu & norovirus.
The teachers are doing a sterling job in the face of total idiocy & incompetence from government & unions.

@BeigeFoodLover I'm with you now.

We started the year doing something a bit similar, with students in year group areas, and not mixing. But pretty much every classroom in the school was constantly in use with normal class sizes.

After half term, we went back to students moving around the school, as teachers were struggling with constantly moving around the school and it was felt the quality of education was suffering. We're in an area with low cases, and we hadn't had a positive case in school yet at that stage.

Good on them for making it work, but I imagine it's hard for teachers constantly having to teach outside of subject.

As far as I can tell, it just wouldn't be viable for most schools, as they don't have the spare classroom capacity!

@DogInATent

It's cheap childcare. De-funding of Sure Start and Early Years interventions has lost the momentum of building parenting skills. Investment in information technology, technology support staff, and training of teaching staff in effective use of technology has been cut for the last decade through underfunding of schools.

The government can't afford to close the schools because they've been progressively defunding the schemes that would have built the resilience in the general population to cope with closing the schools. They haven't invested in the technology and skills to universally deliver a high quality blended learning model, and they haven't invested to ensure that every pupil would have access to it if it could be delivered.

So of course it's rife in schools. We know it. They know it. They know we know it, but they aren't going to acknowledge it.

Such a good post.

It's definitely mysterious why the figures look so different for years 2 to 6 compared to 7 to 11. Is that a biological difference or a difference in behaviour?

[quote SansaSnark]@BeigeFoodLover I'm with you now.

We started the year doing something a bit similar, with students in year group areas, and not mixing. But pretty much every classroom in the school was constantly in use with normal class sizes.

After half term, we went back to students moving around the school, as teachers were struggling with constantly moving around the school and it was felt the quality of education was suffering. We're in an area with low cases, and we hadn't had a positive case in school yet at that stage.

Good on them for making it work, but I imagine it's hard for teachers constantly having to teach outside of subject.

As far as I can tell, it just wouldn't be viable for most schools, as they don't have the spare classroom capacity![/quote]
Yes, I think the teachers are being blooming amazing. For a school which is not considered particularly brilliant ofsted, I am glad I went with my gut as the teachers are brilliant.

I know I’m not in your area, but as a parent who has a lot of friends who are teachers across primary and secondary - you guys are doing amazingly. X

DS secondary has 1400 pupils plus staff.

Something like 70-80% of pupils travel from out of catchment on buses.

There have been NINE cases since September, three of which gave it to each other during half term.

They are reported the highest attendance rates for a winter term in years as due to wearing masks (everywhere except classrooms), encouraging good hand hygiene and social distancing pupils aren't sharing other illnesses that they usually would at this time of year.

Question for me is, why is there such differences between schools like DSs and some of the schools posters on here have mentioned??

@FrangipaniBlue why ? Luck. 4 weeks ago we had not had 1 case. We then had 1 and the following week we had to shut the school for 2 days. It is pure and simple luck.

I hate the children blaming implicit in these threads. It is an airborne disease, this coupled with the fact that most teens are asymptomatic means that it is uncontrollable in schools.

Please don't lay this all on the kids. Between sept and oct half term at my kids secondary school his year was confined to one area ie English dept, etc for PE. After half term all the years are all back to normal moving around the school with face masks in corridors and have to clean tables and chairs each lesson. And they wonder why its spreading 🙄

@FrangipaniBlue

DS secondary has 1400 pupils plus staff.

Something like 70-80% of pupils travel from out of catchment on buses.

There have been NINE cases since September, three of which gave it to each other during half term.

They are reported the highest attendance rates for a winter term in years as due to wearing masks (everywhere except classrooms), encouraging good hand hygiene and social distancing pupils aren't sharing other illnesses that they usually would at this time of year.

Question for me is, why is there such differences between schools like DSs and some of the schools posters on here have mentioned??

I think mask wearing is a huge thing. We have been wearing masks since September, and it is really being policed in school. SLT are huge supporters of mask wearing. We also give out masks to students who arrive without them.

Anecdotally, not all schools are this concerned about mask wearing, and I doubt it is being enforced in some schools.

I think some of it is also luck, and what is happening in the wider community.

I think in some schools, there is a lot of asymptomatic spread and it is practically endemic in the school population. In others, there are one off cases, which are quickly controlled.

@BeigeFoodLover Thank you for saying that, it is appreciated!

At my sister’s school, all the humanities staff are off, apart from one. They have new cases amongst the students every day.
Their risk assessment says that teachers must remain 2m from students at all times, which isn’t possible in some classrooms. But a teacher is off sick with COVID and admits to being within 2m of anyone, they will face disciplinary action for not following the risk assessment. The choice is disciplinary or keep quiet and put close contacts at risk.

@notevenat20

It's definitely mysterious why the figures look so different for years 2 to 6 compared to 7 to 11. Is that a biological difference or a difference in behaviour?

I have a theory that it's school and social differences. Small children are more under parental control out of school - teens do a lot more socialising. So that's part of it. But I think the main one is size of bubble and degree of mixing in school. In my secondary the year group bubbles are 450 kids. In my own kids large primary the year group bubbles are 90 kids, and actually they are mostly with their own 30. Also they have class teachers. Teens see at least 9 different teachers across a week, normally more. The drop at half term is so much more pronounced for secondary that it has to be schools.

Well in my experience covid isn’t ripping through schools!
DS2 primary has only had 1 case (and they sent the child into school while waiting for the child’s test result!!!!) the classes aren’t social distancing but are staying in class bubbles eg eating lunch on own classrooms etc, seperate play times.
DS1 and DD secondary school have had 4 cases since September out of a school of about 800 pupils. Standard comprehensive. They have to wear masks on buses and in corridors. Years (4-5 classes per year) are bubbled and have seperate lunch areas etc.
In fact all the people I know that have had it recently including whole extended families are groups where none of them have kids. Cases are rising in our county and not was tweeted out that it’s workplace and community transmission and not schools that is causing the rise. So I don’t know really.

@EskSmith

I hate the children blaming implicit in these threads. It is an airborne disease, this coupled with the fact that most teens are asymptomatic means that it is uncontrollable in schools.

I don't think anyone is blaming the children- we are blaming the government for forcing us all (students and staff) into this situation!

Some students don't follow all the rules (e.g. mask wearing) but it's certainly not their fault they are crammed into a building with 100s of others who they can't social distance from!

Tricky question .... maybe

1 - size of schools
2 - number of pupils per class
3 - classrooms too small for social distancing because of 2
4 - pupils using public transport
5 - pupils mixing outside of schools

Not to mention school toilet facilities, narrow corridors, book sharing, sharing computer keyboards/DT facilities etc etc

Or maybe none of the above?

@BrieAndChilli

Well in my experience covid isn’t ripping through schools! DS2 primary has only had 1 case (and they sent the child into school while waiting for the child’s test result!!!!) the classes aren’t social distancing but are staying in class bubbles eg eating lunch on own classrooms etc, seperate play times. DS1 and DD secondary school have had 4 cases since September out of a school of about 800 pupils. Standard comprehensive. They have to wear masks on buses and in corridors. Years (4-5 classes per year) are bubbled and have seperate lunch areas etc. In fact all the people I know that have had it recently including whole extended families are groups where none of them have kids. Cases are rising in our county and not was tweeted out that it’s workplace and community transmission and not schools that is causing the rise. So I don’t know really.

Clearly, though, this experience is not being replicated across the country.

Some schools have been very lucky, but in general, secondary school students are the age group seeing the fastest rise in cases once again...

Please don't lay this all on the kids.

Blame the kids for what? Sitting in classrooms, walking to their next lesson, socialising at break? None of those kids are breaking any covid school rules (except the kid with the half off mask).

Not blaming the kids at all, definitely blaming the government.