Why is covid ripping through secondary schools?

[noblegiraffe]

As the press seem unable to find some photos of what schools actually look like at the moment, I thought I'd try to find some myself. They aren't current school photos but pretty much reflect the day-to-day.

1st is a typical classroom in terms of space. Fewer kids than normal though.

2nd is a typical corridor (except much cleaner). Yes they are wearing masks but they are also so close as to be touching. Note the kid with the mask half off, nose out, he has probably just been told to put it on by a teacher. What's unusual is that the kids all have a mask and none are being worn on chins. Also, they're on their phones. Tut.

3rd is what a typical break time looks like. Note the clumps of kids and the boys grappling. No masks, obvs.

Any ideas as to why secondary pupils are the most infected subset of the population?

Noble's photos look lovely in comparison to some schools. This is a photo taken by a student at a local secondary between classes. There are masks and students are made to use outdoor routes between classes, but it's literally a scrum. There's no room to avoid touching other people.

And what none of this rapid testing stuff tells you is who will be asked to do the testing.... which is school staff!!

Bloody hell, attendance in Kent secondary schools last Thursday was 55%.

That is totally shocking. Just over half of kids in.

Wow!!! 55%!??!!? This is not working is it....

Today I have dealt with

• kids fighting in 3 different locations at the same time
• a girl lending her spare mask to her friend

-multiple students refusing to wear masks -multiple students standing less than 30 cms away from me -multiple students disobeying one way systems -multiple students donning masks as they walk past me -students screaming and shouting masked and unmasked -three incidents of me bollocking boys for shaking hands.

Might be some explanations there.

I just had a better look at the data

Secondary:
Medway: 53%
Kent: 55%
Enfield: 55%
Havering: 58%
Thurrock: 59%

Widget at the bottom of this page explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak

Our extremely lucky senior school just sent us a message. Since Friday there have been 14 positive tests across the board. Thank good that since Friday no kids were in school as all year groups have been moved online.
But, hey, let's relax measures through xmas

Um this is only going to get worse with the keenness to keep all contacts in school and test each day (!?)

Also concerned for teachers conditions. They're already being messed arlund aboht isolating. Now it will just be "take a test each day" won't it....

I am sorry if I read something incorrectly, but is it really the plan for teachers to do the swab for the quicktest?

Noelgiraffe has kindly started a thread about this TheSunIsStillShining

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4107652-The-government-wants-YOU-to-volunteer-as-a-school-covid-tester

I'll say it here as well: I would hand in my resignation. No way I would be pushing a stick up anyone's nose to that extent !!! It scares the hell out of me. And I don't think I'd be happy with teachers doing that. Nurses, yes.

Just been watching Newsnight on catch up and finally a piece on schools! Although they said that the BBC had been following the story for some weeks - well you’d never know. No proper content about why schools aren’t safe and the potential remedies, but at least they highlighted the fact that attendance levels in many schools are so low that the fact that they are “open” is a red herring.

What I don't understand is, and this is not goady, please enlighten me if I've missed something, is why aren't rates rising everywhere - why for instance are secondary schools in Herefordshire/Cornwall/Dorset not a problem?

I think community spread spreads IN to schools, rather than schools driving spread. Certainly around where we are once a case is identified and the bubble closed for 14 days there have been very few other cases found in the bubble - normally 2/3 out of 200 pupils.

@Hollyhead

What I don't understand is, and this is not goady, please enlighten me if I've missed something, is why aren't rates rising everywhere - why for instance are secondary schools in Herefordshire/Cornwall/Dorset not a problem?

I think community spread spreads IN to schools, rather than schools driving spread. Certainly around where we are once a case is identified and the bubble closed for 14 days there have been very few other cases found in the bubble - normally 2/3 out of 200 pupils.

Are the whole 200 being tested?

Hmmm... they basically hid their admission that over 1/3 of identified cases in mass testing were asymptomatic. Especially in children.

The keyword in your post is found.

When university students were tested only 10% had symptoms. My secondary school kids are close in age and size to uni students so I expect the numbers to be similar.

@Hollyhead

What I don't understand is, and this is not goady, please enlighten me if I've missed something, is why aren't rates rising everywhere - why for instance are secondary schools in Herefordshire/Cornwall/Dorset not a problem?

I think community spread spreads IN to schools, rather than schools driving spread. Certainly around where we are once a case is identified and the bubble closed for 14 days there have been very few other cases found in the bubble - normally 2/3 out of 200 pupils.

Without knowing specifics it is hard to answer.

• class size
• classroom size

for example

BUT key point is:
bubble closed for 14 days
If we look at the high case rate examples I would bet my hat that it's "isolate close contacts" rather than shut bubbles.

Also has to do with overall rates. In an area where community case rates are low school cases will be low. Another BUT: given that schools are unique in the sense that prolonged, close proximity and same air happens like in no other setting > the likelihood of igniting a cluster outbreak is huge. So whilst it's only 2-3, it simply may be because low community numbers > low school numbers --> isolated whole bubble, so caught it at the right time.

I believe that the government don't track transmission chains thoroughly but anecdotally there seems to be spikes in local schools when they announce a workplace with 100s of infected adults. By workplaces I mean places like factories and warehouses where people can't social distance.

My oldest is at secondary and has a job. She's in y13 where it's the norm but that's another place where kids could pick up infections

@Hollyhead

What I don't understand is, and this is not goady, please enlighten me if I've missed something, is why aren't rates rising everywhere - why for instance are secondary schools in Herefordshire/Cornwall/Dorset not a problem?

I think community spread spreads IN to schools, rather than schools driving spread. Certainly around where we are once a case is identified and the bubble closed for 14 days there have been very few other cases found in the bubble - normally 2/3 out of 200 pupils.

I agree with you - transmission for our local large secondary for the 2 cases they had in students was IN ---- the families had it and sadly sent the children in. It didn't spread though which was great although the bubble including teachers had to isolate. However, only the 2 cases in a secondary of 1400+ students since September.

IMO it's all about what is going on in the community rather than school driven otherwise all schools should be the same with similar numbers of pupils but they are not. Also our school is older and SD is impossible but the SMT are very hot on masks and detentions a plenty for non wearing

There are lots of reasons, congregating at break, having to travel on the bus. Not observing social distancing when possible. However it’s also parents being absolutely idiotic. My friends daughter was told to self isolate, got home and her mum was told she had been in direct contact with someone Covid positive. Turned out he hadn’t been well for a week. His parents sent him in anyway. He had a Covid test and they still sent him in knowing they were waiting on the results. My own friend carried in letting her 13 yr old help her with school runs even though she was supposed to be self isolating. We are not helping the situation...but we don’t want Christmas ruined!

@christinarossetti19

Noelgiraffe has kindly started a thread about this TheSunIsStillShining

It just dawned on me that there is a letter missing in the username.... Wow, it's easy to fool ppl. okay, me.

Festive namechange. I was wondering the same thing yesterday.

Yeah it's noble in a Christmas hat. I was hoping the posting style would be recognisable enough to reassure people it wasn't an imposter