Greenwich schools closing tomorrow

[Starch1e]

Leader of Greenwich council tweeted an open letter this afternoon asking schools to close from Tuesday. Our school is complying.
I need a meltdown emoji. Work is stupid f*king busy this week for me and DP and I cannot do it with 4 & 7 year old at home

@FrogToad

What Dr Harries was saying is that the biggest risk in schools is not the DC. It is staff meeting in informal settings like staff rooms at coffee break and lunch times.

She was very clear that the vast majority of outbreaks in schools will be linked to teachers interacting with each other while not socially distancing or hand washing.

When was the last time you were in a school?

Schools are desperately lonely places. Staff rooms closed. No meetings. No where to eat lunch with a colleague. Fear every time you step into a classroom.

You have not one clue.

I thought the marking in the playground in December was a joke. Were you actually serious?

Would they have the cafe to themselves, if not is it any better than a staffroom? Not to mention confidentiality, I wouldn't want my work being marked in a cafe.

And if a teacher doesn’t drive to work? It’s laughable that Froggy thinks all teachers drive to school.
In fact, it’s laughable Froggy has to resort to an article from an event 4 months ago where the Head later apologised to make a random point because they have nothing else to go on.

Yep, I will just scroll on by to that rubbish now.

Jesus fucking wept. The Bacup incident happened in August when mixing households was allowed. Or are we now saying that teaching staff shouldn’t be meeting up with friends and family even within guidelines? Why not go the whole hog and have us sleep in school? Put our children in the care system, perhaps?

@FrogToad

I think teachers taking their PPA time in their cars to minimise the number of staff in the building is a great idea.

Perhaps staff could sit and do their marking in the playground or even a local cafe. This would be far better than having them gathering in staff rooms.

This is just one example of staff gatherings causing a large outbreak in a school- I suspect there are many more.

www.itv.com/news/2020-09-17/covid-19-outbreak-at-school-pinned-on-teachers-party

A head teacher has condemned colleagues for their “very misguided actions” in attending a party that led to a Covid-19 outbreak.
Eight members of staff at Holy Trinity Stacksteads CE Primary School in Bacup, Lancashire, contracted coronavirus following a gathering at the home of an ex-colleague.
Another three staff members, who did not attend the party, also later contracted Covid-19, forcing the school to close while pupils self-isolate.
• Millions across the UK under tougher local lockdown restrictions
Head teacher John Aspin explained the situation in a frank letter to parents, telling them the school’s extensively planned safety procedures were not to blame.
He said that earlier this week, he learned that a “significant number of staff” had attended a “social event” on Saturday September 5.

I don't know why I'm responding to someone who's clearly too stupid to understand the difference between data and anecdote, but anyway...

You might suspect something, but given you seem to lack the ability to interpret any of the available data and consider it critically, I wouldn't give your suspicions much credit.

PPA mostly isn't marking and most of it requires access to a computer. Most schools use desktops, not laptops. Therefore, staff have to be somewhere with access to a computer and the internet- i.e. not the fucking playground. Never mind the stupidity of suggesting staff sit in the rain when the idea is to avoid them getting ill.

Most schools are not near cafes, and teachers often need to be onsite for various reasons during PPA. I bet my head would love it if I bimbled off to a cafe, only to be needed for some emergency cover part way through my PPA.

Many teachers don't drive to school for a variety of reasons.

Do you actually want an education system left when all of this is over? Because the fastest way to destroy it would be to push teachers over the edge by saying bullshit like "take your PPA in the playground".

And schools can't open at all, if there is no-one able to staff them.

Put of interest, do you think medical staff shouldn’t meet with their friends and families? And supermarket staff?

Hear hear @Isthatitnow

"Schools are desperately lonely places. Staff rooms closed. No meetings. No where to eat lunch with a colleague. Fear every time you step into a classroom.

You have not one clue."

We're In tier 3 Lincolnshire and the numbers are high and to be honest, even tho having the kids home would be a bit of a hassle this week I'd be very happy to try to work round it and know they weren't in school this week.

@Isthatitnow

The headteacher of the school where the staff gathering occurred was very clear that the behaviour of the teachers in netting for a party was 'misguided', 'an error of judgement' and 'unacceptable'.

He was also very clear that he would have forbidden them from attending if he had known about it in advance.

Yeah, because a head teacher gets to ban their staff from meeting with others in their free time. Not. Schools don’t own us. Not yet, anyway.

[quote FrogToad]@Isthatitnow

The headteacher of the school where the staff gathering occurred was very clear that the behaviour of the teachers in netting for a party was 'misguided', 'an error of judgement' and 'unacceptable'.

He was also very clear that he would have forbidden them from attending if he had known about it in advance.[/quote]
And everyone who read about his appalling handling of the situation and roundly criticised him for it, pointed out at the time that he had absolutely no jurisdiction to "forbid" them to do anything of the sort.
They did nothing illegal, nor different from the sorts of things the rest of the population were doing at the time.

Or are you saying that teachers should be held to different standards from everyone else?

If the world were so confident that young children hardly ever catch or spread coronavirus, then why tf is so much time being wasted getting them to wash their hands all the bloody time? Or keeping them in separate bubbles? Or sending them home when they mysteriously do seem to have that virus they don’t catch and it’s just a coincidence the child sitting next to them all day also had it? I mean, ffs.

As for adults spreading it - yes, of course they bloody well do, especially if not wearing masks and sitting in a room in close contact with lots of kids all day, with another adult also in the room with them who gets even closer to the kids to hear them read, etc - and then, as they get more short staffed, as adults pop those bubbles by helping cover more than one class, or even several schools, either as supply teachers, or as other staff helping with supervision of children, cleaning and all the other things that go on in a school. Schools reflect their local communities and the fact they are not being run remotely: you’d have to be a complete idiot not to understand that they have a role to play in virus transmission. At least primary schools have a lesser role in transmission, but that is really not the same thing as no role.

It’s worth taking risks to keep schools open, but it’s not worth lying about the risks, or not giving schools the support they need to operate as safely as possible. And denying the risks involved in keeping schools open whilst letting households mix at Christmas and people go out Christmas shopping, is just a little bit insane. If mental health requires mixing at Christmas, then public health requires action around that to try to limit the damage.

@mincefuckinpies

There is a huge difference between your child having to SI, or having D and V, or a fever, or a viral infection that isn’t corona and needing to take time off, and an entire school closing. I am honestly surprised people can’t see this.

Sorry to surprise you but I can't see the difference in practical terms, aside from school closure only lasting 4 days and SI lasting 14 days, plus you get a day's notice for the school closure, which you don't if your child's bubble bursts.

SI is different from the other examples you gave (D&V, fever, other illness). If a child is actually unwell for any reason then of course they need to take time off, for the sake of their own health before any other considerations.

But most children who are home self isolating are not unwell. They need to take time off to prevent the spread of the virus and in areas of high transmission, many children have needed to do this repeatedly since September.

Please can you explain the 'huge difference' between a child who is not unwell having to SI and a child who is not in school because the school is shut? Both children are well, both are not in school for the sole purpose of preventing further infection.

I will be honestly surprised if you can explain this huge difference in a way that doesn't make closing schools look like the obvious best option.

You can’t see the difference in one year group being out and a whole school being closed?

The headteacher of the school where the staff gathering occurred was very clear that the behaviour of the teachers in netting for a party was 'misguided', 'an error of judgement' and 'unacceptable'.

He was also very clear that he would have forbidden them from attending if he had known about it in advance.

They were legally allowed to meet.

Rehashing this story isn't a good advert for your "covids being spread in staffrooms" propaganda. It wasn't in a staffroom or even in school.

@Cattybumbum

I'm a primary teacher and so glad that my school is not in Greenwich. Because if it was I would be frantically planning lessons now as I don't think ... *Morning : watch film 'Nativity' Afternoon: Christmas Colouring Morning: watch film 'elf' Afternoon: make Christmas cards Morning: watch film 'muppet Christmas Carol's Afternoon : party games and dancing Morning: make calendars Afternoon: zoom whole school talent show*

Would cut it as lessons for home learning

Wow! That is shocking! I’m amazed that you’re allowed to do that. In my school, with the exception of an online pantomime and a class party, there is a full week of learning planned.

Dr Harries also said that she didn’t think the children should bring in their own pencil cases from home as it posed a risk, but packed lunches were fine as she couldn’t imagine that children would want to swap food.
Dr Harries has clearly never set foot in a school or met a real child in her life.

And no, we don’t have a staff room in our school. Adults wear masks in all shared spaces. But we do all have to use the same printer and photocopier, so we do sometimes meet in the corridor it’s now in. Which is nice.

@Hercwasonaroll

The point is that as Dr Harries said, the big issue of transmission in schools is teachers and staff passing it to each other. The story demonstrates that this occurs most often in informal settings where teachers are not socially distanced or wearing masks.

That particular event was a party, but similar principles apply to teachers meeting in the staff room at coffee break or eating lunch together in a departmental base.

I went into the school reception of our very large secondary school. There were about 8 admin staff in a circle with Christmas hats on taking pictures - no social distancing at all, no masks. My jaw hit the floor - what's the point when people like this don't bother. The reception staff member had a glass screen and a visor and a mask - but all the others behind the screen with her didn't....now unless they all live together in one great big bubble... if there is an outbreak at our school no doubt they will blame the kids. However, we are in a very low infection area so quite lucky here.

@FrogToad - or in the classroom itself. Funny how you miss that out, given that’s where they spend most of the day. Or are you suggesting that covid positive teachers are incapable of giving children covid 19?

I don’t get how this doesn’t become a strict lockdown by stealth

Obviously other elements can close schools but generally not the LA this way?

Greenwich primaries said to have few cases and no staff issues from pp are closed

similar principles apply to teachers meeting in the staff room at coffee break or eating lunch together in a departmental base

Except stafffroooms are closed and meetings happen via email if the info can be written or via zoom if face to face is needed. My colleagues and I literally sit in a row in 5 separate classrooms to discuss departmental,issues.

But I said that already. Why ignore what I, and countless others, have told you?

Echoes of Ecosse ITT.

Our staff room is open and I get to sit in it for my 15 minutes of lunch break each day. (The children get 45 minutes but it takes about 30 minutes total to sort out lunch in the classroom and set up for the afternoon)

The story demonstrates that this occurs most often in informal settings where teachers are not socially distanced or wearing masks.

Staffrooms aren't a fucking party!! We have to wear masks and social distancing applies!!

That particular event was a party, but similar principles apply to teachers meeting in the staff room at coffee break or eating lunch together in a departmental base.

Lunch in a department base is ram a sandwich in round your mask while trying to type to get one of your million jobs done. Nowhere near the same as a social setting.

Everything you post makes it clear you haven't been in a school since at least 1999 never mind the last 3 months.