Normal life will not resume by May

[LemonadeFromLemons]

The article below is brilliant at explaining what the vaccine will and will not do. Unfortunately, it also makes clear that it is going to be years not months until we are able to go back to normal. I would strongly encourage every person to read it to get the clear facts in an easy format:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-b6360f40-84f9-469b-b6a3-a4568e161c4f

There are actually quotes from scientists

Yes, and one of them's someone called Professor Salisbury who reportedly said "you've got to stop the virus everywhere and, until you do, nowhere remains safe"

We've already seen the limitations of some "scientists" in the discredited figures knowingly used by Ferguson, Whitty et al, but when even an idiot like me knows you can't "stop" a virus I'd have thought it might have occurred to a professor

So it's probably just more irresponsible reporting from the BBC ... nothing new there I'm afraid

@IcedPurple
Couldn't agree more. I'm an introvert and happy in my own company most of the time. However I miss the company of my close friends, my family, my little nieces etc. I love the cinema, the theatre, going out for food and drinks. I just prefer to do these things in smaller groups or with my family. All the things that make life worth living are gone. And like you say, so many people losing their income. I really don't agree with the "well us introverts are well suited to this". I like a quieter life but I'm not a hermit

Or has the mission shifted to "no illness is acceptable"?

Why not, if there's a decent scaremongering headline to be had?
After all some already seem to believe no death is acceptable any more, so why not extend it to illnesses as well?

It would be good if this opened up debate about how much death is acceptable as I think we have tended to sweep a lot under the carpet. Thinking about the tens of thousands of deaths, including children, that are linked to air pollution.

@HeadNorth

I think long term mask wearing is a good idea - they do it in other countries. Not to the extent we have to now, but going forward wearing a mask when you have a cold to protect others from your germs seems a decent and courteous thing to do.

Pre all this I use to commute by train and I can well remember sitting next to someone on a crowded commuter train in winter who was stinking of the cold - you just knew you would get it and pass it on to your colleagues and family. I would happily wear a mask for using public transport if I have any sort of a cough or cold in future.

Google some pics of something like “Tokyo rush hour” and you don’t see many people wearing masks at all, despite many on MN going on about how “caring and considerate” people are compared to here

[quote Jrobhatch29]@IcedPurple
Couldn't agree more. I'm an introvert and happy in my own company most of the time. However I miss the company of my close friends, my family, my little nieces etc. I love the cinema, the theatre, going out for food and drinks. I just prefer to do these things in smaller groups or with my family. All the things that make life worth living are gone. And like you say, so many people losing their income. I really don't agree with the "well us introverts are well suited to this". I like a quieter life but I'm not a hermit[/quote]
Yes, I like being out with friends - but I also like being able to go home and enjoy the silence for a while!

Like I said above, declaring yourself an introvert is terribly trendy these days and gives rise to these silly introverts versus extroverts 'wars'. But plenty of introverts have had a miserable time this past year. It's not as though people were forced to socialise before the pandemic - if they felt the 'pressure', they always had the option to resist it.

[quote TibetanTerrier]@MadameBlobby
What about the countries who can’t afford vaccination? Surely we have a duty to help.

AstraZeneca has promised 940 million doses to developing countries and another 300 million to the COVAX initiative, according to Duke University's tracker. They will be sold at cost, which is approx $3 per dose. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are being sold almost exclusively to rich countries at $20 - $37 per dose.[/quote]
That’s good

The majority of my family are medics and at briefing earlier in the week, they were informed that initially the vaccine could make things more dangerous as the Pfizer one may still cause you to transmit but be asymptomatic or only very mildly ill. It’s thought it reduces the viral load that you could pass on to others but it was made clear that as staff they could still pass on Covid to their patients and so all the extra precautions will be in place for sometime to come. It’s when the vaccine is rolled out to the general population that things will really start to change. There’s a leaked document that they aim to offer it to all over 16s by late spring/early summer but who knows!

I think masks will be here for a while yet and social distancing but I think more hospitality will open up and vaccine/immunity passports along with the new quick turn around tests and a better organised Test and Trace will also add up to make things a bit brighter after Easter. The vaccine alone certainly isn’t a holy grail. But there are other ways of opening things up whilst taking extra precautions.

It’s not just the “vulnerable” who have been ravaged by this illness. It’s health and social care staff, teachers, shop workers. Lots of young, fit and healthy people have had long Covid and have been unable to get back to work. So we can’t just declare its all safe and over as soon as the CEV and elderly are vaccinated. The vaccinated might still spread it to the general population who are unvaccinated and some of those may die or become ill for quite some time, time off work will be needed, knock on effect on the economy and productivity etc. I don’t think it’s going to be years and I do think there’s lots to be positive about but people will still be expected to abide by some very basic but important rules for the next 6ish months.

Well, if being introverted has become trendy, that’s a positive. I don’t meet many people, so I wouldn’t know 😊 but I think there is a lot to be said for finding peace in your environment, taking pleasure in small things when you don’t have cinema, theatre etc. And knowing that you can find an inner rhythm to keep you happy and motivated.

I haven’t met family for over a year and of course I miss them! And we do feel the stress of Covid and Brexit and the volatile work environment But there is a lot that this pandemic has taught us about what really matters, how important it is that we treat animals and our environment well and how little we need vs want

So rather than clamouring to go back, why not savour the now?

I

@PicsInRed

I've already decided I'm not wearing a mask after Feb and if it's required for entry to access essentials (food) I'll join the nose-out brigade. There are increasingly too many bare faces for enforcement in malls and general shops.

1st March, I'm done.

Lol do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

So rather than clamouring to go back, why not savour the now?

Because it's crap.

And that's without even taking into account the smugness of the 'learning to value what really matters' brigade.

So rather than clamouring to go back, why not savour the now?

Because ‘the now’ doesn’t have a lot to savour for many people. It’s not been a cosy time of reflection on What Really Matters In Life for everybody.

If it has been for you then great, savour away, but it hasn’t been for others and that’s not a failure on their part.

@GoldenOmber

So rather than clamouring to go back, why not savour the now?

Because ‘the now’ doesn’t have a lot to savour for many people. It’s not been a cosy time of reflection on What Really Matters In Life for everybody.

If it has been for you then great, savour away, but it hasn’t been for others and that’s not a failure on their part.

I hope the person upthread who told me nobody is enjoying this has read the horribly smug and out of touch post above. I'm glad the poster is enjoying her 'inner rhythm' but maybe keeping her eyes open might also be good advice.

@Fieldofyellowflowers

Globally, it will take years, yes.

For the UK, it will happen more quickly. Providing that there are no unforeseen hold ups, we will definitely be well on the way to some level of normality by May. Social distancing/face masks will probably be gradually phased out. For the next couple of years, there may be a few localised outbreaks where small areas have to go back to wearing face masks/follow various restrictions but these won't affect the country at large.

Wow how incredibly naive. There will be no semblance of normalcy for at least another year. Have you seen the surveys of how many people are refusing to get vaccinated?

@Loveyourideas

Well, if being introverted has become trendy, that’s a positive. I don’t meet many people, so I wouldn’t know 😊 but I think there is a lot to be said for finding peace in your environment, taking pleasure in small things when you don’t have cinema, theatre etc. And knowing that you can find an inner rhythm to keep you happy and motivated.

I haven’t met family for over a year and of course I miss them! And we do feel the stress of Covid and Brexit and the volatile work environment But there is a lot that this pandemic has taught us about what really matters, how important it is that we treat animals and our environment well and how little we need vs want

So rather than clamouring to go back, why not savour the now?

I

“And that's without even taking into account the smugness of the 'learning to value what really matters' brigade.”

I know it sounds smug, sorry.

It is terrible for people who have lost their lives and health, people who have lost their livelihood.

But it is what it is. And it does have some positives too.

It’s not just the “vulnerable” who have been ravaged by this illness. It’s health and social care staff, teachers, shop workers. Lots of young, fit and healthy people have had long Covid and have been unable to get back to work.

I take a bit of an issue with some of the statements here.

1. "The vulnerable" have to be careful of infections and illnesses in normal times. The big scare about Covid has given rise to a lot of disproportionate fear and anxiety in many clinically vulnerable people. In reality, the steps they take to protect themselves in usual times would probably have been sufficient in many, if not most cases.

1. "It’s not just the 'vulnerable' who have been ravaged by this illness. It’s health and social care staff, teachers, shop workers."

Just so that you are aware, many of "the vulnerable" work and you will find them in all these professions!! They're not all sat at home being a drain on society.

1. "Lots of young, fit people have Long Covid": this seems to be thrown around as a new means of making people feel personally threatened in order to scare them into submission. I'm not denying that post viral Covis syndrome exists, but I feel that there needs to be some robust research around this. Which symptoms can be used to make a diagnosis? What proportion of people is it affecting? Is there a way to mitigate against it in the early stages? Is the incidence of post-viral symptoms/complications higher in Covid than in other viral illnesses?

I thought right at the beginning that the WHO expected the pandemic to last 18 months - 2 years (and that was without a guarantee of any sort of vaccine)
Has this changed? If that was the case we could hope things might change in the 2nd half of next year, or beginning of 2022...
There seems to be a cost for each benefit of the restrictions. During lock down 1 it was very quiet with fewer cars and buses on the roads etc , no planes flying, which was of huge benefit to the environment , the air quality was better etc....But the travel industry was decimated, with huge redundancies.
For everyone who enjoys quieter restaurants with fewer tables...the restaurants are going to either have to lay people off, cut their profit margins significantly....or possibly close.
A lot of MN earlier in the pandemic were berated for mourning the cancellations of concerts, festivals etc and told they were "entitled" for missing them. Of course missing a football match, concert, festival or show is not the end of the world....but theres a massive contingent of people for whom this is their livelihoods.
The ubiquitous MN introvert is loving wfh, and not going out, but loads of people are missing social interaction, both in the working world and for fun.
A lot derided Boris Johnson for the apparent "save pret" drive to get people back in London, but the truth is there is a whole economy in cities that relies on workers going out at lunchtime and after work. Not just chains but small indie bars, restaurants, sandwich bars, hairdressers, shops etc. Tier 2 restrictions will mean they can stay open.....but they'll have no customers.

But it is what it is. And it does have some positives too.

Not for me.

Glad you've found your 'inner rhythm' though. Keep on savouring!

It depends what you mean by 'normal'.

I would like to be able to go to work as a teacher and know that my workplace was tolerably safe, and that my nearest and dearest are not at risk if I meet them after work.

I would like theatres, music and dance to be able to function at an economically sustainable level.

I would like to be able to visit elderly relatives safely and without travel restrictions between areas of the country.

I would like to be able to go on holiday within this country, and visit places of interest predictably.

i would like my children's places of education - school and university - to offer full time face to face tuition and some of the social interactions they did before the pandemic started.

i understand that international travel may be off the table. I am entirely happy to wear a mask, sanitise my hands and if necessary queue and social distance in public places to facilitate any or all of the above.

I am hoping that come August / September this year, what I would like is possible. I don't think the 'back to completely normal with international travel, cruises etc' will return for longer than that.

Define "fully normal".

I'm not after "fully normal", I'd be happy with "almost normal" where we must wear masks but otherwise do most of the things we once took for granted.

There are massive costs now. And there were massive costs before (but perhaps more hidden, to the environment and wildlife).

Reflecting on what matters to us as a planet is not a luxury (although I agree it sounds smug)

I miss my parents and sister terribly. I haven’t seen anyone socially for months.

Well, on the other hand we are relatively healthy for our age. We have food on the table. And I am very grateful for that.

Yes, perhaps it is easier for some to be more isolated but still I don’t think it is all that desirable to revert to a ‘normal’ that is all about consuming

The article says 'it might take months or possibly even years' to get back to normal. Well which is it? There is quite a bit difference between several months and several years!

People won't comply with this for much longer. Once winter is done, flu season is over and the most vulnerable are vaccinated, people just aren't going to be willing to put their lives on hold any longer.

Personally I wouldn't mind carrying in wearing a mask in shops and other places now - I am totally used to it, have a manky one in my handbag at all times now and it doesn't bother me at all. Not being able to meet up with whoever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want.... No, I am not willing to carry that on for 'years'.

Yes, perhaps it is easier for some to be more isolated but still I don’t think it is all that desirable to revert to a ‘normal’ that is all about consuming

You're sounding smugger and more out of touch by the post.

Maybe instead of 'reflecting' about the planet, you might 'reflect' a bit more on real life for real people? It's not all about 'consuming'. It's about being with others, it's about being able to go to gyms, cinemas, restaurants, pubs, museums, to travel and see the world anhd have a life beyond the walls of their home.

If none of these things interest you, great. Stay at home and reflect away. But millions of people are desperate to get back the lives they enjoyed. What line of work are you in as a matter of interest? I take it you don't fear your entire industry being wiped out while you cultivate your 'inner rhythm'?

Hey @IcedPurple, no reason to be so aggressive. We are also ‘real’ people, even if we think differently than you.

We have lived across countries and have had so many knocks in our lives! But as many others, we are used to getting up and dusting ourselves and being grateful for what we have.

Being grateful does not equal being privileged (although I agree it can come across that way)