Secondary schools are stuffed, GOVERNMENT ADMITS

[noblegiraffe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55265098

Mass testing for secondary school pupils in worst affected areas.

@noblegiraffe - well, we always do agree, it’s just the way you worded it that I felt was unhelpful! And at least the secondary school I worked in had a caretaker available all day, which was very helpful for emergency cleaning and toilet fixing purposes! Primary school children are no better toilet trained than teenagers, unfortunately, nor any less inclined to block sinks and toilets deliberately.

way you worded it that I felt was unhelpful!

Sorry! Solidarity, as always, with my primary colleagues! I’m very grateful that I’m not expected to clean toilets or mop up sick.

Primary children are generally:
Less likely to be infected (fewer ACE receptors etc)
More likely to be taught in smaller bubbles
More likely to be taught by the same staff every day
More likely to comply with hygiene measures in school when prompted
Relatively easy to persuade to be risk averse
Easier to keep indoors after school and control social interactions

Secondary children are generally:
More likely to be infected (especially the older ones)
More likely to be taught in larger bubbles, or faux-bubbles
More likely to be taught by multiple staff, often teaching across bubbles
Less likely to comply with hygiene measures, especially given the horrendous state of many school toilets
More likely to have a poor sense of individual/collective risk and difficult to persuade to be risk averse (they’re teenagers)
Difficult to keep indoors after school and control social interactions

I think that explains most of the difference in infection rates between primary and secondary pupils.

Another difference between primary and secondary pupils is travelling to and from school.

Primary is more likely to be walk/cycle/drive accompanied by parents at least up to Y5. Secondary more likely to be public transport.

I walked my new Y7 in and from school for the first few days in September. Zone 3 London, we passed pupils from at least 7 different secondary schools, lots waiting at bus stops, piling into the chicken shop after school, hugging, taking close selfies etc.

Not criticising them btw, just a reflection.

Secondary more likely to be public transport.

And school buses which are worse than public transport. All crammed in.

Secondary kids more likely to be snogging and having sex...hopefully not in school though.

Ok, I have not thread the entire thread. However, can anyone explain to me, how mass testing in schools is supposed to prevent London from going into Tier 3.
What does mass testing exactly prove?

@milveycrohn

Ok, I have not thread the entire thread. However, can anyone explain to me, how mass testing in schools is supposed to prevent London from going into Tier 3. What does mass testing exactly prove?

You can cut transmission chains I assume is the plan

By removing those people and isolating them

I think, milvey that mass testing is the only weapon the government has in this instance. It is obvious from the data that secondary schools in those areas are a massive infection pool.

Normally mitigation measures would be introduced where an issue has been found. Closing down a factory, introducing PPE for care homes, mask mandates in shops.

They can’t do any of this in schools because that would admit that the assessment of the risk of covid spread in schools is totally wrong, and it would go against their KEEP SCHOOLS OPEN AT ALL COSTS mantra. They can’t close the schools, they can’t issue PPE or give more funding or make masks compulsory.

All they can offer is testing, which is too little, too late.

I don't think it's necessarily the case that primary school children aren't infected as much. I think they are much more likely to be asymptomatic or have different symptoms and far less likely to be tested as it's such a palaver administering the test to younger children. All I can say from observation is that while relatively few primary pupils are testing positive, there are a lot of primary staff testing positive.

I don't think it's necessarily the case that primary school children aren't infected as much. I think they are much more likely to be asymptomatic or have different symptoms

Again, the ONS survey is random sampling. It doesn’t require symptoms and picks up asymptomatic cases.

The ONS random surveying which is done on people of all ages who are asymptomatic does show a higher rate of infection amongst secondary school aged children labenderlou.

The rate of infection amongst primary school children is increasing though, and I'm sure you're right about the number of asymptomatic primary kids unknowingly transmitting the virus.

Testing is still good though. Didn’t Liverpool see a big reduction? It works to drive cases down.

And if you are in a system whereby HT can ask everyone to do it compliance will be high.

And I’d reckon it’ll be more effective than masks and other mitigation would be.

It would be more effective if the schools involved moved to online learning at the same time, don’t you think?

Moving to online is pretty much the way to go when schools get out of control. And that’s what I prefer anyway - each school takes out all risk when it ramps up.

In terms of the week I’d choose the one after Christmas to do this.

Well that’s just bonkers. Christmas mixing is approaching.

Yes and you want it mixed back in after? That’s bonkers

Marsha I think that rates in secondary kids might actually drop over Christmas.

Oh possibly yes that would be good

@noblegiraffe

Marsha I think that rates in secondary kids might actually drop over Christmas.

What makes you say that?

In terms of the week I’d choose the one after Christmas to do this.

In my ideal world, every teacher + every child would be tested before being allowed to return to school.

Then from that point on, all contacts of any positive test should isolate and be tested, immediately and 5 days later (and obviously, close contacts of any extra positive cases would also need to isolate and be tested and so forth). 2 negatives or full 10 day isolation to return to class.

T*he boroughs where it is to roll out are Waltham Forest, Havering, Barking and Dagenham, Hackney & City of London, Redbridge, Newham and Tower Hamlets.

But goodness only knows when it'll be ready to start, and how it'll actually be carried out*

I live in one of these boroughs, I have one in Y6 and one in Y11, I also work in a large secondary here. Testing started for all asymptotic children as well as their families and school staff this morning. Our borough has three pop up sites, by 11am two had run out of tests, the other said you had to book online and they would only test if you had symptoms, even though it's specifically been set up for asymptomatic so all in all the usual shit show.

Sorry bold fail for the first two paragraphs there

What makes you say that?

Well, I know it was rhetorical, but at Christmas they'll be mixing with a far less infected subset of the population than they are at school. They'll most likely have fewer contacts too. We saw the dip over half term where they were still having parties and sleepovers - make that two weeks and actually it could be quite a big impact.

Agree with cant that testing should be implemented after Christmas, but I've wanted that for a while now, not just for Christmas.