Angry teachers why aren't your leadership team doing more?

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If there's 2-3 teachers catching Corona daily in one school (15 a week) as stated on another thread why on earth has your leadership team not shut the school? Another school with 66 cases in pupils in one week, why is the school still open?
Before you say the government won't support it, that's rubbish. My DCs school has recently shut for 2 weeks at least to all but year 11 and 13. And they had much fewer cases than above and none in staff.
You should be lobbying your leadership team as they sound useless.

@canigooutyet

This just be a choice for the head in that case. Schooling is so complicated!

must be

Yes state secondary.

Background infection rate and local demographic/ area makes a difference I’m sure. Whilst Headteachers aren’t experts in infection control (and I agree that some are much more risk averse than others) they do know their local population and likely compliance with rules etc. It would be good to see more joint decisions and risk assessments between them and PHE

Yes state secondary.

Fascinating. I have asked a separate question on this now. Please feel free to reply to it.

In the real world outside mumsnet, the only people i know who have had covid positive tests are teenagers and teachers, and also two nurses. But schools are safe and, apparently, according to mumsnet, while the nurses obviously caught at work the teachers and teens must have caught it at tesco

Nope. The guidelines then said something about the schools choice. The schools then gave that choice to the individual. Explained the exemption rules in detail to help minimize peer pressure.

The things they cannot follow due to the layout of the school are social distancing and adequate ventilation.

Now they have their IT system back, assemblies are now back on and they stay in their classes. No clubs. I'm not even sure if music and drama are back yet (they were taken off the GCSE options in his school)

And of course, there's the uncontrollable sibling element and parent(s) going out to work, before we even consider that many parents and educational staff also have caring duties elsewhere.

I support those in education going on strike. They have really been screwed over from the beginning by the government, and of course the pupils.

Because of gov decisions many heads are working throughout the weekend doing T&T. During the last lot of holidays doing T&T. The gov here have an Inset day next week (to be made up for next year) so you can finish doing T&T on Christmas Eve. Aren't we nice? Making you work all these extra hours for free, doing yet again someone else's job.

However, I really understand why they aren't even really discussing it at the moment. They have to stay strong despite the government trying to beat them down. Simply because this would give those officials all the. ammunition they need to blame schools for all that is happening.

The motto should never have been schools open at all costs.
It should have been education at all costs.

Oh I didn't mean pupils had also screwed over staff, but they have also been screwed over

Yes, millions of kids have had to isolate, unable to even leave the house, some of them repeatedly due to this government’s incompetence.

Those parents should also be rising up.

@notevenat20: "If the head really wants the school to be more empty they can also make sure teachers teach across years so if any teacher gets infected huge numbers of children will be sent home."

What are you implying here? That Head Teachers are deliberately encouraging bubble-crossing (beyond what is essential) just so they can get rid of whole year groups?
I think your bias is showing once again.

@notevenat20

Your experience doesn't trump the data. And if your DS goes to a state school, they're likely to be investigated by the DfE for sending too many kids home.

Your data is orthogonal to the question of whether schools can affect how many children are likely to be sent home by changing how they set themselves up with respect to mixing.

Not really, or at least not how you seem to be suggesting.

Only close contacts get sent home. Therefore only the students sat next to the positive case go home.

So yes, the head can reduce the number. An obvious way would be to ensure that the same students sit together in all lessons. This would reduce the number of close contacts down to probably about 6 who sit nearby. It also has an academic impact. Everything that every industry is doing in this pandemic is a balancing act.

I'm waiting for my COVID test but I have a temp, headache, muscle soreness and 5 of my team at work are positive. I think it's a fair bet I've got it.

My team are community mental health that so why am I posting on a schools thread?

Because the first colleague to get it got it from her secondary school child. The school had tens of positive children in all year groups plus teachers infected but her DD wasn't sent home as 'not a close contact' and of course the school did not close despite over 100 pupils and staff self isolating.

So she got it from her asymptomatic child. Went to work as she was none the wiser and the team are dropping like flies now. This is despite us all wearing masks and PPE and the office base being allegedly COVID secure. I am actually shocked how far and wide it has spread. I will admit we were not perfect with the mask wearing and distance from colleagues (patients I'd say we were) but no-one was hugging anyone else. Maybe rooms were a bit overcrowded sometimes and mask wearing not 100% but people who barely had any contact with one another are getting infected (I had a 5min car journey with the person who has given it to me both definitely wearing masks and her in the back me driving as per policy)

The team is screwed now. All of us are ill or self isolating. There is No-one to see our patients. If our work gets back filled something else will have to close as there are no spare staff waiting to take over. People are going to be at risk and be hospitalised because of this.

We keep being told the vaccine is here but in truth I don't know anyone that's been offered or received it. It sucks to fall at the final hurdle like this.
Oh yeh and our lateral flow tests were negative in 2 cases of people who went on to have COVID symptoms the very next day....

The knock on effect of school outbreaks on the rest of the community and the health service is real and can't be ignored. Teachers aren't safe, families aren't safe and it puts the wider community and the health service at risk too.

I hope the government is going to realise this and start taking things seriously.

My child has been required to wear a mask at all times when inside since the beginning of October. In a state school.

I know. We had a long conversation about it in a previous thread. And yet the guideline says it’s not required in classrooms in England. Until the guidelines change on this, it is not Headteachers’ fault to follow them. We’ve seen what happens when Heads do, this week. This was the context of my post.

Not only not required, Chloe but should be avoided.

Far less neutral.

@noblegiraffe

Not only not required, Chloe but should be avoided.

Far less neutral.

Exactly.

Locally, HT has interpreted 'should be avoided' as 'not allowed' [primary].

I don't think they would have interpreted 'not required' in quite the same way.....

@ChloeDecker

My child has been required to wear a mask at all times when inside since the beginning of October. In a state school.

I know. We had a long conversation about it in a previous thread. And yet the guideline says it’s not required in classrooms in England. Until the guidelines change on this, it is not Headteachers’ fault to follow them. We’ve seen what happens when Heads do, this week. This was the context of my post.

I disagree there was a ‘whole long conversation about it’. If doesn’t fit the rhetoric but personally I think it’s important to learn from what is being used and the situation in those schools.

Primary schools are totally different because masks are not mandatory anywhere for under 11s here and the WHO are not recommending them for under 12s either

Doug that is why all kids are banned from the hospital trust here unless they have an appointment or are patients. And those with appointments are happening away from the main entrances. Staff are openly talking about it on the wards, signs everywhere, staff at entrances etc taking temperatures.

Over the years I have been there whilst other infections are ripping through the place. I've spent time there in isolation. Unless they have been ill I've always been able to see them, even if it meant going outside because I didn't think they could handle seeing that ward. And of course, ward age restrictions.

And because one of my other dd's was living with him, we couldn't even meet outside.

Staff are SDing as much as possible. Patients wearing masks whilst being seen. Exemption? What's that? Thankfully, my MH cp could be fully implemented.

Yet schools are safe apparently and not passing it around.

The only differences I see is social distancing and regular testing (twice a week including patients).

Wards aren't freezing, could have comfortably stayed the whole time undressed. Yet the school kids are all having to wrap up.

Yet CV infections within the hospital are low. And unlike within schools the T&T app can be switched on.

@canigooutyet are you saying it’s not freezing in school? They have no heating on and all windows and doors open and it was snowing last week? Hospitals are generally heated to about 35 degrees 24 hours a day, they’re unbearably hot for a lot of people, I agree they’re not going to be cold even with the windows open!

It a pretty long conversation Bungle (this was on my watch list)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4086381-Schools-should-close-for-2-weeks-after-the-Christmas-mixing?msgid=101983996#101983996

Oh I'm saying they are bloody freezing in schools. Yet another one of the great government fantastic really thought through plans for schools must remain open at all costs. Hyperthermia is also a bitch to deal with.

The ward windows do not open. There is no ventilation.

Yes I think that's basically it. Kids in school are the riskiest people around. Everyone except the DFE knows that. We can't risk letting them bring in infection but we can't help it if our own kids get it.

We also have an outbreak on one of our MH wards currently (not mine) and I don't know how that started but 100% of the staff and patients got infected despite masks, PPE, handwashing etc I really did not think it was so infectious until this local experience. You hear of people in the same household not getting it. Just doesn't seem that way from where I am.

No-one has died yet and I pray they don't but 5 were transferred to the acute hospital so pretty sick.

I think the thing people don't think about with NHS being 'overwhelmed' is it's not just having to care for COVID patients it's if there's a staff outbreak that service cannot be staffed and then who will care for those patients? People will be redeployed to staff wards but less 'urgent' stuff will have to shut to allow that and people will suffer.

Our ward windows don't open because people tend to climb out of them/ Chuck themselves out plus ligature risk. It is therefore hot as Hades and unventilated but that's the weigh up

It really is so difficult for you and your colleagues DougRossIsTheBoss. So sorry.

Thanks Chloe
Just feel really guilty about all the patients we are letting down
But we can't keep our kids off school. We aren't allowed to even if we wanted to.
If schools were safer everyone would be safer.
I care about teachers being safe but even if I didn't then surely people must see it's in no-ones interests to have schools being a reservoir of infection.