We're having 2-3 teachers a day catching CV19 DFE You're not keeping us safe

[Anon12345678910]

Look at the image from www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223
I've circled where we fall in classrooms. It's time for face coverings in classrooms. I don't want to loose any colleagues or my own life.

@charlieclown

Funny how you never get these threads about other public sector workers. Care workers, police officers, doctors nurses etc.

It's tough it really is, but public sector is exactly that - service to the public.

No one is lying and saying those other groups aren’t at risk. There isn’t a government cover-up of the data. There has been masses and masses of news coverage about the situation in hospitals and care homes.

0.9 million children were missing school the other week because of covid. When it was uni students affected it was headline news. Now it’s secondary kids that are the most infected subset of the population and nothing is being done about it.

These threads are needed so that when MNetters’ schools and communities are affected, they know why and that it’s not an isolated incident but due to failure of government.

Im going to say what i think then leave as i know how nasty some of these threads can go. To the poster who says we're whining. Id like to see how you would feel after doing my job for the day! I work in a nursery have upto 30 toddlers sneezing, etc on me a day. With obvs no mask wearing, social distancing. As much as i love my job i reckon you too would feel pretty vulnerable by the end of the day. No proffession other than education has no protection whatsoever!

In my girls' secondary school, masks are compulsory at all times indoors except when sat at their desk in a lesson and when eating/drinking. Pupils can choose to wear their masks in a lesson if they wish. Teachers follow the same rules as pupils, must wear masks when moving around inside school and can wear them when teaching.

The school have openly reported any cases and despite a lot of isolations, so far no teachers have had a positive test and only five pupils, and these five since half term.

If this school can do it, is the decision not to mask down to school leaders or the DfE?

@user1471562688

And since time began we have had teachers catching flu/norovirus/any virus but we just got on with it. What is different about this? It's just another virus. I haven't heard of teachers dropping dead like flies. Please stop all the drama. All it is doing is destroying our children's education. Shame on all the drama llamas who are prepared to destroy their children's lives for a stupid virus with an IFR of 1%. You will look back in years to come and be ashamed of yourselves but your poor kids will be fucked. Well done.

Really? Then you are in a very privileged position indeed not to have witnessed the carnage.

Where do you live?
What ages are your children?
Do you work in education?
How many cases have your school/s had? Are they inner city comps in Tier 3 by any chance?

Two of my colleagues are seriously ill in hospital.
My son caught Covid at school. He's very fit and was quite poorly. We do not know the long term effects of this virus.
had 4 self isolations due to high cases Inc 10% of form with Covid. My other son's had 2 isolations.
They are both in Gcse years and this is destroying their lives with frequent self isolations.

I work with around 20 schools, with most on their knees, huge amounts of disruption and staff ill.

I am ashamed - of the gaslighting by Govt and posters who don't seem to have a morsel of understanding or empathy.

These threads are needed so that when MNetters’ schools and communities are affected, they know why and that it’s not an isolated incident but due to failure of government

And to let Govt know of the huge discontent with their staff and the huge lack of confidence in their leadership.

@charlieclown. Other public sector workers shouldn’t put up with it but that’s their call. In my opinion, no one has to ‘serve’ if their working conditions are dangerous. If you want public sector workers to do their job because YOU need doctors, nurses, teachers... so YOU can live YOUR life, everyone has a duty to make sure they are not put at risk. The government can and should fund schools to mitigate the impact of Covid. Because, you know, the schools must stay open and your children need an education 🙂

What upsets me the most about comments like the bollocks from @user1471562688 is the complete lack of joined up thinking and consideration for the impact of this.

Take aside the impact of testing/isolating situation, we have collegues who were seriously ill. We have colleagues who have died. We have colleagues who now have long term health conditions (I remember being called a liar about some of those, espeically a colleague who had a stroke as a consequence of COVID. Again, lack of thinking there)

The worst part of this is the impact on the kids. I've sat with a 15 year old as she cried about her dad, who died from COVID. I've spend hours with parents who are struggling due to bereavement. We have families with members in hospital longterm, and at home with complications. We now have more students who are young carers due to parental illness.

With have families struggling because they have lost their job; they have lost their job because this government have failed to bring in measures to control the virus. I have over 100 students about to sit exams in January who are falling apart with anxiety about school, worry for their family and friends and even the staff. We have had suicide attempts in our student body, and getting support for them is so difficult right now. We have a student in hospital (our third) and despite not telling the kids, they know. And they are scared.

I've not even spoken about the impact of this on our staff. Some who are vulnerable, pregnant and terrified, struggling with childcare for numerous isolations or are even bereaved themselves.

If you haven't seen any of this due to low numbers in your area then you are very lucky. We've been hard hit from the start in Manchester and this has never let up.

Drama llamas? I would fucking love you to come and spend the week with us.

@user1471562688

And since time began we have had teachers catching flu/norovirus/any virus but we just got on with it. What is different about this? It's just another virus. I haven't heard of teachers dropping dead like flies. Please stop all the drama. All it is doing is destroying our children's education. Shame on all the drama llamas who are prepared to destroy their children's lives for a stupid virus with an IFR of 1%. You will look back in years to come and be ashamed of yourselves but your poor kids will be fucked. Well done.

I have an annual vaccine for flu.m to reduce my risk of being ill and needing time out of school to recover.

Is it being a 'drama llama' to want to avoid being rushed to a and e again with dangerously high blood pressure, with a very real risk of heart attack or stroke, caused by catching Covid at school?

Is it being a drama llama to be concerned that 2/3 of our staff became ill with Covid over a 4-5 week period, many of them feeling really quite poorly and a number struggling with fatigue and other symptoms weeks later?

Whilst your child might be able to catch Covid with little symptoms and bounce back with a few days, sadly not all their teachers can.

@charlieclown

Funny how you never get these threads about other public sector workers. Care workers, police officers, doctors nurses etc.

It's tough it really is, but public sector is exactly that - service to the public.

I would support every single one of these workers to have tightened safety measures in their work places be that masks, ventilation, social distancing where possible, funded increase in hand washing and sanitisation stations, increased cleaning in their work places, the right to self isolate if in close contact with known cases, etc.

For me it shouldn't be a race to the bottom. We should all be allowed to expect a safe work place to whatever level is possible.

Maybe in some work places they simply can't and are doing everything they can. Unfortunately in schools recommendations have been made by who, sage, etc and then roundly ignored by the government.

Imo it's because
Teachers are not representing the higher risk groups on average (males/older etc)
It seems maybe gov will only vax say 50% of the population as they agreed not to do more so that other countries had access.
The gov clearly have no morals and dont behave right blatently.
See no wrong in contracts for their friends
No ppe at the start for nhs (telling them what they were given was enough)
Knowingly discharging to care homes (stated as an intention)
Dnr on elderly
Plans for relatives to do care so gp etc didnt need to go in people's homes
High criteria for admittance to hospital so dying at home (incl young people)
Lies about safe schools/distancing/whole bubbles would be shut/testing/rotas. These were not u turns as not needed it was lies that they would do it.

I don't really understand why the public are not more concerned. Yes we know politicians lie, but usually about affairs etc. Yes i can understand about at the start when ppe wasnt available.
They manipulate the news.
This will likely end badly for this country as our children will be the most infected with long term effects. As will many working age people. It will be expensive (but there weems no treatment)
They will be sued. Mainly because

• it is clear there is a risk
• it is clear more could be done (masks/smaller clssses/home education)

It is clear other countries did more If 2% of teens are infected 20 per 1000 school. Catching it there is neither unexpected or an accident. Negligent.

@user1471562688

And since time began we have had teachers catching flu/norovirus/any virus but we just got on with it. What is different about this? It's just another virus. I haven't heard of teachers dropping dead like flies. Please stop all the drama. All it is doing is destroying our children's education. Shame on all the drama llamas who are prepared to destroy their children's lives for a stupid virus with an IFR of 1%. You will look back in years to come and be ashamed of yourselves but your poor kids will be fucked. Well done.

I agree

Can't believe the teacher bashing. I want a safe environment for my kids and colleagues. We've got some very anxious children and parents who are vulnerable, our budget is shot because our head has put some sensible measures in place but the government have made no additional funding available for it and we were cut to the bone already. Our poorest and most vulnerable kids have been hit hardest, they are most likely to have a vulnerable family member, most likely to have poor or no IT, most likely to have been repeatedly self isolating. 8% of our families have had a bereavement. This isn't fucking flu.

I never understand people thinking that teachers don't have the kids best interests at heart. We want a safe, well funded, well run education system because that is what children and educators deserve. Everyone should be angry about how this government has treated education.

@1940s

If you agree then can you also explain to me why it's 'drama llama' to be concerned about catching something at school which has me hospitalised and off work for seven weeks and now on life long medication for complications caused by said illness; a disease that's affected 2/3 of our staff within a month leaving many struggling with fatigue and more weeks on.

I protect myself with a vaccine for flu and pneumonia. I reduce the affects of my long term arthritis with medication, I will now take more medication to deal with the blood pressure issues in left with.

But why aren't I allowed to want to protect myself against Covid?

@whyarewehardofthinking

What upsets me the most about comments like the bollocks from *@user1471562688* is the complete lack of joined up thinking and consideration for the impact of this.

Take aside the impact of testing/isolating situation, we have collegues who were seriously ill. We have colleagues who have died. We have colleagues who now have long term health conditions (I remember being called a liar about some of those, espeically a colleague who had a stroke as a consequence of COVID. Again, lack of thinking there)

The worst part of this is the impact on the kids. I've sat with a 15 year old as she cried about her dad, who died from COVID. I've spend hours with parents who are struggling due to bereavement. We have families with members in hospital longterm, and at home with complications. We now have more students who are young carers due to parental illness.

With have families struggling because they have lost their job; they have lost their job because this government have failed to bring in measures to control the virus. I have over 100 students about to sit exams in January who are falling apart with anxiety about school, worry for their family and friends and even the staff. We have had suicide attempts in our student body, and getting support for them is so difficult right now. We have a student in hospital (our third) and despite not telling the kids, they know. And they are scared.

I've not even spoken about the impact of this on our staff. Some who are vulnerable, pregnant and terrified, struggling with childcare for numerous isolations or are even bereaved themselves.

If you haven't seen any of this due to low numbers in your area then you are very lucky. We've been hard hit from the start in Manchester and this has never let up.

Drama llamas? I would fucking love you to come and spend the week with us.

That's dreadful. But thanks for sharing. We need people to see the realism not what government have decided can be seen or are allowing the media to report.

[quote Aragog]@1940s

If you agree then can you also explain to me why it's 'drama llama' to be concerned about catching something at school which has me hospitalised and off work for seven weeks and now on life long medication for complications caused by said illness; a disease that's affected 2/3 of our staff within a month leaving many struggling with fatigue and more weeks on.

I protect myself with a vaccine for flu and pneumonia. I reduce the affects of my long term arthritis with medication, I will now take more medication to deal with the blood pressure issues in left with.

But why aren't I allowed to want to protect myself against Covid?[/quote]
1940's if you agree perhaps you could provide the statistics user failed to to back up your viewpoint?

How many teachers have had, been hospitalised, are in ventilators or have died with Covid since March.
Specifically the period from sept to dec.

Then the same for flu and Norovirus.

I'm sure everyone would be reassured to see some genuine statistics that Covid places teaching g staff at absolutely no more risk than they are to other viruses.

And perhaps an explanation to why masks and SD are suggested as much as possible for Covid whereas they never have been for flu or noro?

I honestly would live to see evidence that the risk isn't greater. Thanks

Another teacher here who caught covid from school. We had 6 children / staff in one class test positive. I was isolating from the first person testing positive so I definitely got this from school.
I have been really poorly.
Also this has meant my own children have been forced into another period of isolation , the fourth one for my year 11 dd.
What’s happening in schools is an utter disgrace.

@whyarewehardofthinking same here. The impact on the kids is huge. Only reason I will be going in tomorrow- we only have exam years in now as not enough staff to have anyone else. Remote teaching going to be patchy as so many staff too ill. We had no cases 3 weeks ago.

As it seems like the DfE have been reading these threads: we are a two teacher household in secondaries with two small children. We have parents who are either of an age or have a condition that makes them vulnerable. They’re also our childcare so that we can do they job. There are thousands of families like us. It’s clear that you don’t give a toss about us. You should be ashamed of how you’re running the department and clearly insisting that this story stays out of the news.

[quote mumsneedwine]@whyarewehardofthinking same here. The impact on the kids is huge. Only reason I will be going in tomorrow- we only have exam years in now as not enough staff to have anyone else. Remote teaching going to be patchy as so many staff too ill. We had no cases 3 weeks ago.[/quote]
The impact on pupils is awful.

My schools has to close two days a week as in certain days we don’t have enough teachers to staff it. We haven’t been opened to all years since the last week in Sept when we had our first positive case.

My own pupils aren’t getting the best version of me. I am sad and scared and this means my teaching is suffering. I keep going in (when open), keep teaching live when at home but I have lost my passion. I feel my safety isn’t valued. The Dfe need to realise schools are open - as nest as they can be - but pupils are being taught by burnt out teachers.

Flu and norovirus do not send home scores of children and teachers in a normal year, occasionally a school might close for a few days to deep clean due to norovirus and occasionally a school might partially close due to staff shortages with flu, in 20 years if teaching I've never known it seriously affect a school I've worked in, you occasionally see it on the news.
Covid is clearly a different kettle of fish, rates of infection in secondary school children are 50 times higher than in September and continuing to rise despite rates falling after the lockdown in all other age groups. Currently the group being hospitalized most frequently are women 40+, because we are the teachers, nurses, doctors, retail workers, parents of teens and so being affected most.

Statistics on teachers released by ONS placed us at similar risk to other key workers, however the margins of error were huge, suggesting that the data was under powered. They split teachers into several groups and the 'teacher other' group was actually at highest risk with lowest error margins, the analysis looked dodgy as. They also stated supermarkets were highest risk of infection, but split schools into several groups all of which were in top 10, again if the data hadn't been split education as a category would have been top.

ONS, breaches, + teachers: THREAD

Today I reported an ONS breach to the UK Statistics Authority.

Two breaches in fact: one regarding an “ad hoc” analysis on education staff in part 9 of the 6 Nov ONS covid survey pilot, and one for a related 3 Nov government leak. 1/ t.co/hOVyiUMu5U

@wonderstuff thank you xxx

As it seems like the DfE have been reading these threads

If the DfE are reading I'd like to invite them to come and spend a week in my 'perfectly safe' infant school with me.
Then I've a friend in a local secondary down the road too, the following week they can head there. The school has had at least 1-2 classes or half year group bubbles closed every week since September.

Whilst I'm clinically vulnerable I don't expect them to send their CV staff in, anyone will do.

I want them to see what it's like in a real school, not the ones with 3 or 4 kids sat spaced apart in a huge room.

I want them to mix with hundreds of children at close contact, with no masks and windows that open just a fraction - basically enough to let freezing cold air in but not enough to fully ventilate. Where the only hand sanitiser left is what we bring in ourselves. Where we try to clean regularly but with no extra funding the reality is we clean ourselves at break time and lunch times. Where we have no choice but have children coughing and sneezing next to us, on to us, on our equipment, etc - these children are 4-7 so their hygiene is getting there but at the end of the day they're still little and learning.

Then head to the secondary where the corridors and stair wells are over crowded, where teenagers the size of grown men are sat shoulder to shoulder in small classrooms, where they are mixing across bubbles before and after on busy buses, etc.

Come and join us. I'll even wash my hands before I make them a cup of coffee to drink as we clean the computer room equipment between lessons at break time.

They also stated supermarkets were highest risk of infection, but split schools into several groups all of which were in top 10, again if the data hadn't been split education as a category would have been top.

I’ve been thinking about this data and how it has been presented. (Latest data attached). If you think about the proportion of the population who regularly go to the supermarket and the proportion of the population who regularly go to school, the first group is way way bigger than the second. Yet the data isn’t adjusted to take this into account. What percentage of school aged pupils reported to test and trace had their common exposure at a supermarket? There’s a massive proportion of the population who don’t attend school so in fact the risk of them catching covid at school is zero. That makes the risk of catching covid for those who do go to school proportionally much higher than those who merely go to Sainsbury’s on the weekend.

And they included working in a supermarket in the supermarket category but working in a school doesn’t appear anywhere. Is that because if they added it, there would be no way of pretending that schools weren’t top of the list?

I haven't heard of teachers dropping dead like flies

Within a 3 mile radius of my home, since half term: one dead site supervisor, one dead TA, two teachers from the same school in intensive care.

Those are the ones we’re aware of.