NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

[UnlimitedUnspecific]

The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

The government is running scared now because of the tremendous fuck up whereby infected patients were discharged to care homes. Methinks one group who are really going to profit from covid are the ambulance chasing lawyer bunch when all the legal action starts.

The JCVI prioritisation hasn’t changed the barrier has been removed from following it.

Be good to know how

@UnlimitedUnspecific
It’s disappointing when hospital are ready to give from Tuesday. Very concerned re wastage of doses 🙁

NHS Covid-19 wards are full of people aged 45 years and above who do not live in care homes. As a pp said, unfortunately many very elderly and frail are not in ICUs.
This will not benefit the NHS front line or NHS as a whole as much as vaccinating the NHS front line

Because residents of care homes are being left in the home to die without treatment not because they're not catching it. They very much are and they're spreading to other residents and staff.

I can't comment on how much NHS staff need or deserve the vacccine. I don't work for the NHS and have no clue what is going on in the NHS. I do work in a care home and I do our residents are suffering massively not just from Covid but from MH issues from being isolated. This is having a devastating effect on dementia sufferers especially. We've lost as many residents to MH (being moved to secure facilities due to sudden and steep declines in MH) as we have Covid.

We're constantly running shifts on less staff than needed due to sickness and self-isolating staff leaving a danegrous environment for residents and staff alike. Those able are working more hours than ever and the situation for PPE is still shaky (we also only have paper masks, gloves and plastic aprons - even when we have residents with confirmed Covid).

I'm not saying the NHS don't need the vaccine just as much as care homes do. I could never know that as I don't work in the NHS but care homes are struggling and desperately need an end. I assume the experts who have nominated care homes to go first have their reasons and know the situation within care homes and the NHS.

And as an FYI many, many of our residents are under 70 with some being in their early 50's.

Estimated rollout time now 2 weeks - but still doesn't sound like they have worked out exactly how to do it.

If I understand correctly, the vaccine doses are already in the country (or nearly) but will now be waiting in storage for 2 weeks whilst they work out how to distribute it to care homes?

@IRunLikeJoeBiden

But how is it possible to vaccinate care home residents when only hospitals have the correct storage facilities? Do they all get taken there by patient transport, one or two at a time?

They have been trying to figure out a way to bring the vaccine to them, it would seem this has been found hence care home residents and staff being vaccinated first (as was the plan in the first place). There are designated vaccination satellite centres, the hope is that it can be transported from there to local care homes. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread and to be honest, we just need to wait and see what happens.

@Frequency

*NHS Covid-19 wards are full of people aged 45 years and above who do not live in care homes. As a pp said, unfortunately many very elderly and frail are not in ICUs. This will not benefit the NHS front line or NHS as a whole as much as vaccinating the NHS front line*

Because residents of care homes are being left in the home to die without treatment not because they're not catching it. They very much are and they're spreading to other residents and staff.

I can't comment on how much NHS staff need or deserve the vacccine. I don't work for the NHS and have no clue what is going on in the NHS. I do work in a care home and I do our residents are suffering massively not just from Covid but from MH issues from being isolated. This is having a devastating effect on dementia sufferers especially. We've lost as many residents to MH (being moved to secure facilities due to sudden and steep declines in MH) as we have Covid.

We're constantly running shifts on less staff than needed due to sickness and self-isolating staff leaving a danegrous environment for residents and staff alike. Those able are working more hours than ever and the situation for PPE is still shaky (we also only have paper masks, gloves and plastic aprons - even when we have residents with confirmed Covid).

I'm not saying the NHS don't need the vaccine just as much as care homes do. I could never know that as I don't work in the NHS but care homes are struggling and desperately need an end. I assume the experts who have nominated care homes to go first have their reasons and know the situation within care homes and the NHS.

And as an FYI many, many of our residents are under 70 with some being in their early 50's.

Lets hope the latest news is correct and that logistics allow for you, your colleagues and the residents to be offered the vaccine very soon The situation in care homes is truly heartbreaking.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread and to be honest, we just need to wait and see what happens
Please specify what is misinformation in this thread - that is a very hefty accusation. (for future reference, when someone says 'to be honest' it usually means they are lying).

So upsetting when vaccinations could start next week.

@Frequency

*NHS Covid-19 wards are full of people aged 45 years and above who do not live in care homes. As a pp said, unfortunately many very elderly and frail are not in ICUs. This will not benefit the NHS front line or NHS as a whole as much as vaccinating the NHS front line*

Because residents of care homes are being left in the home to die without treatment not because they're not catching it. They very much are and they're spreading to other residents and staff.

I can't comment on how much NHS staff need or deserve the vacccine. I don't work for the NHS and have no clue what is going on in the NHS. I do work in a care home and I do our residents are suffering massively not just from Covid but from MH issues from being isolated. This is having a devastating effect on dementia sufferers especially. We've lost as many residents to MH (being moved to secure facilities due to sudden and steep declines in MH) as we have Covid.

We're constantly running shifts on less staff than needed due to sickness and self-isolating staff leaving a danegrous environment for residents and staff alike. Those able are working more hours than ever and the situation for PPE is still shaky (we also only have paper masks, gloves and plastic aprons - even when we have residents with confirmed Covid).

I'm not saying the NHS don't need the vaccine just as much as care homes do. I could never know that as I don't work in the NHS but care homes are struggling and desperately need an end. I assume the experts who have nominated care homes to go first have their reasons and know the situation within care homes and the NHS.

And as an FYI many, many of our residents are under 70 with some being in their early 50's.

I don't think a single person on this thread has ever said that care homes were not deserving of vaccinations. Many people have said staff in particular should be top priority. Personally, I have acknowledged the desperate isolation due to inability for family visits and the catastrophe that unfolds if Covid-19 gets into a care home. I hope you are able to see some improvement soon - care homes may start getting the vaccination within a couple weeks hopefully.

I do work in a care home and I do our residents are suffering massively not just from Covid but from MH issues from being isolated. This is having a devastating effect on dementia sufferers especially.

If you ONLY have a limited supply do you really think a dementia patient is of more use to society and future well being of hundreds rather than the doctor in the ICU ward?

The harsh reality is that it should be an emotionless and NON POLITICAL decision. And from those povs care home residents should not be top of the list.
If there was a steady flow of vaccines than the discussion would be relevant. But there is not.
And, again feel free to flame me, but why give the 95% effective to those with a full life behind them and only a couple more to live? Wouldn't the frontline worker 3x need it more?
It feels that this decision on priorities is purely about optics.

It's like giving guns to grannies in the middle of england in ww2 and letting the troops in europe fight with play swords. It makes no sense.

It is upsetting it’s been delayed

@TheSunIsStillShining

I do work in a care home and I do our residents are suffering massively not just from Covid but from MH issues from being isolated. This is having a devastating effect on dementia sufferers especially.

If you ONLY have a limited supply do you really think a dementia patient is of more use to society and future well being of hundreds rather than the doctor in the ICU ward?

The harsh reality is that it should be an emotionless and NON POLITICAL decision. And from those povs care home residents should not be top of the list.
If there was a steady flow of vaccines than the discussion would be relevant. But there is not.
And, again feel free to flame me, but why give the 95% effective to those with a full life behind them and only a couple more to live? Wouldn't the frontline worker 3x need it more?
It feels that this decision on priorities is purely about optics.

It's like giving guns to grannies in the middle of england in ww2 and letting the troops in europe fight with play swords. It makes no sense.

The JCVI decided. It is non political and non emotional.

Obviously anyone getting the vaccination first is a good thing for that sector - that is now back to being care homes.
I am certainly not against care homes getting the vaccinations. They are very deserving of the vaccines and I sincerely hope that this improves life for the residents and staff.

PoisoningPigeons, if only government was full of rational people, using reason. This is not the time to be all emotive, this needs calm logical reasoning.

I particularly agree with your example of care workers. It makes sense and with finite resources will have the greater impact, as with front line NHS workers.

Really pleased you'll be getting it first in care homes. I hope that families will have a chance to see each other. March was a long time ago.

Shame on those talking about who is of more use to society. If we lived like that we would be in a dictatorship doing genetics and IQ testing before deciding who we bother to feed, house and treat.

If you ONLY have a limited supply do you really think a dementia patient is of more use to society and future well being of hundreds rather than the doctor in the ICU ward?

We've lost three residents to MH this year (all moved to more secure facilities). Two with dementia, one with learning difficulties. All started to decline suddenly after isolation began.

That's just one are home. This is happening around the country. There is very limited space available to care for vulnerable people with MH needs. In fact, space is so limited we have to fight tooth and nail to get people the care they need. In the most recent incident that took a woman going missing for 8 hours and being found delirous, suffering with hypothermia and covered in cuts and bruises she can't account for.

It's not a case of who is more useful to society. It's based on practicality. There was nowhere to put these people to keep them safe before Covid took its toll on staffing levels. A Dr is unlikely to decline to the point where they need life-long, 24 hour care (including someone sitting in their room while they sleep to ensure they don't escape and cause themselves or others harm).

Jobsharenightmare, how many nursing homes have you visited?

@Jobsharenightmare

Really pleased you'll be getting it first in care homes. I hope that families will have a chance to see each other. March was a long time ago.

Shame on those talking about who is of more use to society. If we lived like that we would be in a dictatorship doing genetics and IQ testing before deciding who we bother to feed, house and treat.

I don't think that was aimed at me (I never said the thing about society), but am just commenting to say that many NHS frontline workers have abstained from seeing family since March also due to the high risk of passing on the virus to their families and extended families. I know that is not the same as being isolated in a care home, and I am also happy that care homes residents and staff will be vaccinated soon. That can only be a good thing.

A Dr is unlikely to decline to the point where they need life-long, 24 hour care (including someone sitting in their room while they sleep to ensure they don't escape and cause themselves or others harm two doctors died at my DH's hospital, many staff are permanently unable to work due to fatigue and PTSD from Covid.
Both sectors are deserving of the vaccine and I personally don't begrudge the care homes their vaccines - I am happy someone will benefit.

I'm very sorry to hear that @UnlimitedUnspecific.

I hope this doesn't sound cold but I was speaking in terms of practicality. While the death of anyone is heartbreaking, I and I'm sure anyone else would agree the death of a Dr is his/her prime is far more heartbreaking than the slightly early death of dementia sufferer (anyone who knows dementia knows that in the end death is a blessing).

However, practically speaking, dementia sufferers are going to have a greater financial and social impact on society if they're left without the proper care en masse.

Everyone deserves the vaccine. Old and young and I wish there was a way for everyone to get it first. Personally, I would priortise front-line staff working on Covid wards and care home staff working in the midst of an outbreak rather than care homes in general but it's not my choice and I don't have access to the information the people who are making the choice have.

I do really feel for healthcare staff especially as it was just about to happen.

Really hard to deal with that.

@MarshaBradyo When you say the JCVI is non political and non emotional - are you sure? My concern is that they are trying to minimise number of covid deaths, because that is what makes the headlines, and not looking at the overall impact on years of life, as NICE would when considering treatments.

Noone should have to die of covid. I fully support everyone following guidance or beyond to protect the more vulnerable (one of my own children is one, and my parents and grandmother). But given that people will, we should also accept that a 40 year old health care worker in good health who dies is likely losing 40 years of life (and likely leaving young children without a parent), Vs eight elderly care home residents with dementia, all with life expectancies under 3 years and all of whom will be difficult for them and require tremendous care. My grandmother is in a care home and says she wants to refuse her vaccine and give it to my sister, who is a nurse, on this basis.

My grandmother is in a care home and says she wants to refuse her vaccine and give it to my sister, who is a nurse, on this basis.

My FiL is in his late 80s, he's not in a care home but rather living independently at home, and he was very cross at this latest news - said if he gets offered it as a priority, he'll turn it down in favour of my SiL who is frontline NHS staff. (I refrained from pointing out that as he's not in a care home, he's not getting it either).

@MarshaBradyo exactly - the disappointment is hard to articulate. For staff that are already exhausted and with poor mental health, this has been badly managed.

I appreciate care home staff have also had a very difficult time too.

People will leave nhs on droves, we’ve been badly let down, ppe and now this.
My team have had 2 deaths. It’s hard not to feel emotional tbh.