Can you meet in a cafe or restaurant with people not in your household

[User5666]

In tier two? I think not However a family member is arguing with me that you can.

You can if you say you are having a business meeting, as apparently the virus won't spread that way

Surely they still have to social distance if they are having a business meeting, as they would at work. If I have a meeting at work and we can't SD in the room we have to wear masks, which you obviously can't do if you are eating.

@ineedaholidaynow

Surely they still have to social distance if they are having a business meeting, as they would at work. If I have a meeting at work and we can't SD in the room we have to wear masks, which you obviously can't do if you are eating.

There is no mention of that in the guidelines, just that it is ok to do so 🤷🏻‍♀️ Like most of the government's response to the pandemic it's totally illogical.

Meet them and be sensible

But it's not is it, because the outcomes of any of those minor scenarios aren't that if thousands/millions of people do them, then the spread of a potentially fatal virus will increase

They are pretty similar actually, the added risk from those things isn't much different - the increase in severity in the accident of speeding, the reduced visibility in parking increasing the chance of an accident, and the added pollution of an idling car contributing to all the air pollution deaths (and air pollution will contribute to more deaths than covid, even if covid was left to run riot).

All of those things are illegal 'cos they slightly increase the risk of people coming to harm. That's the same as the individual risk of meeting your mum for a coffee. It's obviously not exactly the same, but it's a lot closer than the drunk driver, and it's not clear cut that it's more likely - particularly if you are two people meeting who have already had the virus for example.

Lawyers really shouldn’t be unclear on the law- it is written in black and white and educated professionals should be able to decipher it.

Yes in those circumstances it sounds like you could form a support bubble if the person is in a single household and they haven’t formed a bubble with anyone else.

@Clearasmuddypuddles

Lawyers really shouldn’t be unclear on the law- it is written in black and white and educated professionals should be able to decipher it.

Yes in those circumstances it sounds like you could form a support bubble if the person is in a single household and they haven’t formed a bubble with anyone else.

Thanks

Do you happen to know if that’s set out in the law?

@Hayeahnobut

How on earth are cafes going to know who lives with who?

At one point the government were saying businesses should ask. That would be ridiculous and easy to fall into discrimination territory.

In reality, no one is going to check if your coffee mate lives with you or not.

Depends on where you are.

Many pubs and restuarants have made a point of asking it here.

Also if 6 blokes in their late 20s or 30s turn up in a pub together asking for a single table I would say they are unlikely to fall into discrimination territory and its pretty obvious they don't all live together. Especially since shared houses don't exist here.

Equally, two or more women with babies of a similar age turn up at the cafe....

There are also much larger fines for not adhering to laws for venues. That means independent premises are going to have to be particularly careful on this.

I do think there are ways to be polite and avoid problems over this too anyway.

I think that heavy duty thermals will be in fashion this winter though.

You can for a business meeting though. So you could of course be talking over plans to start up a business ?? 😉

I live somewhere where there have been restrictions for a while and cafes etc do check/ask esp after a load got fined.

@clareykb

I live somewhere where there have been restrictions for a while and cafes etc do check/ask esp after a load got fined.

They ask if you’re in a bubble together?

@Sparklingbrook

How on earth are cafes going to know who lives with who?

They don’t. They aren’t there to police people. It’s up to us, as law abiding citizens to follow the law

Obviously @DirtyDancing but history dictates the general public aren’t very good at that are they?

They ask on entry to confirm that you are following guidelines and that you are all from the same house/bubble. I mean there isn't anything to stop people lying but then it isn't very sensible! Huge areas of the North have had this restriction for months..I love cafes but have coped.

@clareykb

They ask on entry to confirm that you are following guidelines and that you are all from the same house/bubble. I mean there isn't anything to stop people lying but then it isn't very sensible! Huge areas of the North have had this restriction for months..I love cafes but have coped.

This makes me even more confused about what’s a law and what’s a guideline!

No. Sadly rules are very clear

@janetmendoza

No. Sadly rules are very clear

But you’re ignoring the bubbles for singletons...

I think the government has completely lost the plot. I work in a school and it’s not safe for me to visit my family indoors, but it’s deemed safe for class bubble nativity’s to go ahead in tier 1 and 2 with an audience of socially distanced, mask wearing parents. Yet not safe for parent evenings to talk about children’s progress. Where’s the logic? Latest guidance released tonight by department for education!!

@Sparklingbrook

A local pub/restaurant has these. Do they count as inside or outside?

Outside

You can if it’s a business meeting.

Meet them and be sensible

This has got to be the daftest response. What do you even mean by this ? We have 2 secondary school age DCs MIL wants to come for Xmas, "will be sensible" and wants us "to be sensible" before she arrives. It means absolutely sweet FA.

To be "sensible" means 2m apart outside and out with masks on inside thats what the evidence suggests will reduce the risk of transmission anything else is Russian Roulette . That is completely impratical if meeting for a coffee or meal unless outside and hopeless over Christmas

Sorry 2m apart inside and out

You’re only allowed to work or shop, provided you don’t browse for more than 15 minutes. Anything remotely fun or enjoyable is prohibited. Us people who live alone and work from home have once again been forgotten. And before you say support bubble, as mean as it sounds, I want to socialise with more than one person for the next 4 months!

@Clearasmuddypuddles

Lawyers really shouldn’t be unclear on the law- it is written in black and white and educated professionals should be able to decipher it.

Yes in those circumstances it sounds like you could form a support bubble if the person is in a single household and they haven’t formed a bubble with anyone else.

As an educated professional...the law regarding lockdown stated it was to last 28 days. But the government have made Wednesday freedom day, which means it will actually have lasted 27 days. That is typical of the confusion surrounding everything coming out of government at the moment. Unfortunately reading comprehension is not enough to work out the guidelines, the law, and the application of both to individual situations.

It was guidance that you couldn't meet other households indoors in some areas in earlier restrictions. This was subsequently upgraded to law and 'you must not'.

Which hasn't made this any clearer.

(I've been juggling multiple different restrictions for different areas for months. I am getting kind of used to this and its funny seeing other people's heads exploding at how complicated it all is!)