Getting sick of Tory backbenchers

[lovelemoncurd]

Why is Johnson surrounded by these mini Trump characters who are constantly pushing for less restrictions? Just pay people more to tide them over the next few months. Be cautious until the vaccine arrives. They continuously quote crappy research arguing for the ineffectiveness about incentives that their party have put in place ! They are very odd indeed!

If you are being bombarded with concerns every day from your constituents but no way to vote so their voice is heard then it’s not a better system.

I am glad they are speaking out. Some of the restrictions made no sense yet have a massive impact on economic and psychological well being. A balance has to be struck.

You can’t impose authoritarian rule on a country that has never voted for that nor culturally identifies with it.

Yes other countries have ‘done better’, but I don’t want to be welded in my home thanks nor have my data tracked by the government. Some of these solutions that people fantasise about having here are simply not palatable for the U.K. public and, rightly in my opinion, they won’t be adopted here.

“WhoopsSomethingWentWrong

They are as entitled to an opinion as anyone else”

Yeah, but I think these MPs are proving that old saying that opinions are like assholes.

I’m glad they are questioning it. I want less restrictions. The harm it’s causing to some areas is awful.

Yes other countries have ‘done better’, but I don’t want to be welded in my home thanks nor have my data tracked by the government.

Exactly. It shouldn’t be a huge shock that libertarian, individualistic cultures struggled more. But our learnings from this need to focus on what works for us culturally. Be more China is not a direction I’m comfortable with.

@LemonTT. But it is authoritarian to lockdown swathes of the economy almost overnight and for the supposed greater good. Telling people that the way they want to earn their living is no longer allowed. Telling us where we’re allowed to go and who we’re allowed to have in our house. Whether people think that’s authoritarian enough is another matter. The Overton window has moved massively in the last 12 months and things that were unthinkable previously have been embraced by many people.

Steve Baker is a hypocrite. A quick glance at his voting record shows he doesn't give a damn about people living in poverty.

OP, we live in a democracy. It is very important to have people in Parliament who represent an alternative viewpoint, rather than just toeing the line in all cases. Otherwise you get a situation like they have in the Scottish Parliament where you have one point of view (Sturgeon's) which holds sway in decision making, and any opposing viewpoint is seen as dissent or even treason by the more rabid among her supporters.

At the moment, rightly or wrongly, scrutiny is coming from the Tory backbenchers rather than the Opposition. But the fact that it is there ultimately benefits the citizens of a democracy.

I can't understand when people criticise the House of Lords. Having decisions and policies scrutinised is a good thing

[quote Holyrivolli]@LemonTT. But it is authoritarian to lockdown swathes of the economy almost overnight and for the supposed greater good. Telling people that the way they want to earn their living is no longer allowed. Telling us where we’re allowed to go and who we’re allowed to have in our house. Whether people think that’s authoritarian enough is another matter. The Overton window has moved massively in the last 12 months and things that were unthinkable previously have been embraced by many people.[/quote]
Completely agree! Not only has the Overton window been shifted as you say but the weird situation where “lockdown “ has become a left wing position where Labour demand more of it, left wing teaching unions refuse to open schools etc is back to front. In my opinion labour should have been the ones opposing lockdown certainly from the summer time. Lockdown is authoritarian and anti working class and young people and yet the opposite happened and opposing or even just questioning lockdown policies has somehow become a “right wing” position. It is really most odd and back to front. Not just in this country but everywhere.

@sashagabadon agreed! Never in a million years would I have thought that the ones standing up for the poorer younger people would be the Tory backbenchers and the Telegraph.

What a strange world we are living in.

I am a bit sceptical as to why the Tory backbenchers are standing up for the poorer younger people. Are they really? Or is it self interest that is making them (finally) perhaps listen to the needs of their constituents.

Whatever it is I personally don't care as no one else is asking Johnson to justify his actions.

But I'm not convinced that these Tories have suddenly become altruistic.

@Dustballs

I am a bit sceptical as to why the Tory backbenchers are standing up for the poorer younger people. Are they really? Or is it self interest that is making them (finally) perhaps listen to the needs of their constituents.

Whatever it is I personally don't care as no one else is asking Johnson to justify his actions.

But I'm not convinced that these Tories have suddenly become altruistic.

Agree with you that people like Steve Baker hold deplorable positions on things like Brexit but in the absence of anyone else holding the government to account then we’ve no other option. Of course people like the OP don’t want any challenge (surprised no one has jumped on this thread accusing us of wanting to kill their granny, next door neighbour, sick child etc) but thankfully some people realise it’s vital in a functioning democracy.

Caroline Flint raises a good point. If those backbenchers want a cost benefit analysis then are they really considering all the costs? As she rightly said what about the costs of long Covid? There's too many unknowns for a cost benefit analysis to take place that is meaningful!

But I'm not convinced that these Tories have suddenly become altruistic

I don’t think they have necessarily.

But central to Tory philosophy is people providing for and being responsible for themselves. Lockdown is physically preventing people from making a living and I can see why that sits very badly.

Caroline Lucas not Flint!

[quote lovelemoncurd]@WhoopsSomethingWentWrong even the Labour government are supporting the measures for the sake of presenting a unified message to keep people safe but some of these Tories want their moment in the sun at any cost! [/quote]
Which Labour government are you referring to?

A lot of Tories don't agree with Boris, a lot of people on this thread have limited understanding of how democracy and economics works.

@lovelemoncurd. So what do you propose then? Accept unquestioningly the government narrative on this because an undetermined amount of people might get long covid?

And it is absolutely unacceptable if a cost benefit analysis hasn’t been carried out and isn’t continually honed with new information. It’s negligent if they don’t have multiple models showing potential scenarios. They won’t publish it as then you’d get the covid fanatics and economic illiterates frothing that a price has been put on their granny’s life.

@lovelemoncurd

I never mentioned silencing did I ? They are free to give an opinion but they seem in direct contrast to their own parties policies. I wondered if they are wanting some of the spotlight?

Well, the point of having an Opposition Party is to put an opposing POV.

As Labour are just agreeing with the Government, I'm very grateful that someone's doing their job and we're getting debate, rather than just government by dictat.

I completely disagreed with the likes of Steve Baker re: Brexit. However I think the conservative backbenchers are completely correct to question some aspects of lockdown which are causing economic damage and ruining people's quality of life without doing much to reduce the spread of covid. Eg. shutting down outdoor sport and non essential shops. Neither the government or opposition parties have given an economic plan as to how the vast amount of money spent on furlough will be paid back so it should be used as sparingly as possible. Furthermore furlough money is not enough to keep many businesses afloat as they have other overheads to pay at a time they have had no money coming in for months eg. travel industry. I am more frustrated that the opposition parties have not been opposing some of the measures. I completely support the government measures on restricting indoor socialising between different households as it is clear that that is the riskiest activity in terms of the spread of covid. If shops, hairdressers, gyms etc were allowed to stay open there would more money available to help pubs in tier 3 areas etc.

Well, the point of having an Opposition Party is to put an opposing POV

No it isn't. It's to hold the Govt to account which Keir Starter has done every week at PMQs. No point being contrary just for the sake of it.

Starmer not Starter

@MoiraRoseismyStyleIcon

Well, the point of having an Opposition Party is to put an opposing POV

No it isn't. It's to hold the Govt to account which Keir Starter has done every week at PMQs. No point being contrary just for the sake of it.

I agree that the opposition party is not just to have an opposite opinion for the sake of it but Labour have failed the working class as their “holding the government to account “ seems to have the same opinion of the Gov but more of it. Labour have been demanding the Government go further in their rules and restrictions. They demand stricter rules, longer lockdowns. That is not a dissenting view. It is the Position of the Gov already but on steroids. They sided with the unions not to open the schools after May half term when it was arguably the safest time to do so. They should have been demanding the Gov open the schools ASAP as it is workings class kids that suffer most from a lack of education. At least some Tory MP’s have been dissenting voices and demanding scrutiny of Gov decisions.

Labour were also asking for more furlough support and better support overall with the closures they were demanding.

But I know what you mean @sashagabadon I'm not understanding Labour's stance on this either.