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Getting sick of Tory backbenchers

88 replies

lovelemoncurd · 23/11/2020 09:22

Why is Johnson surrounded by these mini Trump characters who are constantly pushing for less restrictions? Just pay people more to tide them over the next few months. Be cautious until the vaccine arrives. They continuously quote crappy research arguing for the ineffectiveness about incentives that their party have put in place ! They are very odd indeed!

OP posts:
bathsh3ba · 23/11/2020 10:03

From my experience, they are expressing the views of most Tory voters. It is Johnson who is out of step.

MarshaBradyo · 23/11/2020 10:04

I’m glad the voice for economy is as strong on balance. A lot of pressure to MPs will be coming from their constituents anyway (business owners).

LurgyOnTheLoose · 23/11/2020 10:09

@bathsh3ba

From my experience, they are expressing the views of most Tory voters. It is Johnson who is out of step.
There are 70 of them out of 365 Tory MPs - that is not a majority, doesn't even represent the majority of Tory constituencies.

As a secondary point, it may be that these 70 are not dictating policy, it maybe the lobby groups and party donors who are dictating policy.

Either way, not a great outcome for democracy, even if you are a Tory party member.

LurgyOnTheLoose · 23/11/2020 10:10

Only costs £50,000 donation to get into the Tory party policy-directing group for a business person/industry group.
Biggest return on investment possible for some industries.

Mintjulia · 23/11/2020 10:16

At least they are forcing discussion of the issues. I don't agree with them but we have a parliamentary system not a presidential one (thank God) and that means changes to laws must be debated and all views considered.

They are doing their job, no matter how irritating. The alternative would be Trump's system!

Dustballs · 23/11/2020 10:18

Say a large number of residents where you live wrote to your MP @LurgyOnTheLoose - about their businesses failing due to lockdown and a feeling that they were being shat on by the current government policies.

Would you want your MP to ignore these letters/pleas for help? Or would you prefer that he/she stood up in parliament and expressed the concerns of the constituents?

It is very likely that there are people in areas all over the country writing to their MPs about similar concerns with the lockdown strategy. These are definitely not (as you call them) 'minority views'. You only have to scan Mumsnet Covid threads to see that.

So - there are 70 MPs who are standing up for their constituents' worries. They group together to make their voice stronger and heard.

You are suggesting that because there are 'only' 70 of them, they should shut up. I personally think 70 is rather a lot.

What you are suggesting is that we allow BJ to become a dictator. But you keep saying that you're a supporter of democracy. ...

Notonthestairs · 23/11/2020 10:19

I think I'm suspicious of the Covid Recovery Group for the same reason I am suspicious of the European Research Group - who is funding them & what do they want? I wonder how much overlap in membership there is between the two.

Thinking about it I there aren't many MP's I'm not suspicious of these days.

Holyrivolli · 23/11/2020 10:21

So you don’t want anyone to challenge or question the current lockdown policy then @LurgyOnTheLoose? You don’t want any scrutiny on whether lockdown is the correct policy for the greater good? Is it just this policy that you don’t want anyone to challenge or all government policy?

Thankfully our parliamentary structure allows for individual or groups of MPs to push back against the government of the day. The alternative seems rather authoritarian.

Orangeblossom7777 · 23/11/2020 10:26

It is good they are considering the costs of the lockdown in terms of health (physical and mental) and the economy as well. They are asking for a cost benefit analysis if the measures which seems sensible.

TheGreatWave · 23/11/2020 10:27

@Dustballs

Well- I've always voted Labour, so far. Am 100% sure I'll never ever vote Tory.

BUT - I'm relieved these Tory backbenchers are questioning the measures put into place. No one else seems to be. And we all should be.

The current and future health of the nation is not just about bringing infection and death rates down. Not by a long shot.

I would go into this in more detail OP - but get the feeling it may be a waste of my time, so I'll leave it there.

I fully agree with this. Thank goodness some are standing up and asking questions.

If you agree with them or not is actually immaterial, but any policy should be questioned and it is absolutely right that this is.

tortoiseshell1985 · 23/11/2020 10:30

They are protecting our civil liberties
Thankfully

midgebabe · 23/11/2020 10:31

I think it's all very well them complaining about the impact of lockdown. I am astounded at how little they are able to think logically about the alternatives,,.they are responding and reacting to the situation on the ground whereas I would think politicians should also be able to understand how their choices impact on the future. And those complaining do not seem to be able to do that very well. Their understanding of cause and effect seems minimal.

Hayeahnobut · 23/11/2020 10:34

Their opinion may not match yours (or mine), but I imagine they can see the devastation lockdown is causing to their local communities.

It's their government that caused the devastation in the first place! All this talk of levelling up is hilarious when the reason they're in such a state is years of underfunding from a Conservative government.

Holyrivolli · 23/11/2020 10:35

I find it staggering how we as a country seem to be sleepwalking into an authoritarian state and so many people are willingly giving up hard fought for freedoms in order to feel safe which in itself is such a nebulous term. The fear that has been caused by such a relatively benign virus has shown real flaws in how western democracies are structured. Of course it is sad for the families who lose a granny prematurely but shutting down huge swathes of the economy and the inability of our health/ social care services to cope with a virus that is not actually that serious to most people is shocking.

Dustballs · 23/11/2020 10:39

It's their government that caused the devastation in the first place! All this talk of levelling up is hilarious when the reason they're in such a state is years of underfunding from a Conservative government.

But @Hayeahnobut - what does any the above have to do with them raising the concerns of their constituents now? Just because the Tories have screwed everything up - which I agree with. Just because they've messed this country up - the Tory MPs still have a job to do which is to represent their constituents and bring the concerns to parliament.

Do you want them to stop doing their job with the excuse that they don't have to bother anymore as everything's gone to shit?

Dustballs · 23/11/2020 10:42

I find it staggering how we as a country seem to be sleepwalking into an authoritarian state

I find it staggering and also terrifying how many people understand so little about how our government/democracy works.

I'm no genius. I know very little too. Our education system is to blame for that. But I get the basics ...

The reason people are willing to give up their rights is because they don't know what their rights are. They don't understand how things should be working because the system has been turned on it's head by Johnson and Cummings etc

All this is evident by reading some of the opinions on this thread.

TheGreatWave · 23/11/2020 10:48

I am very pleased to see the names of some of my local MP's there.

TheKeatingFive · 23/11/2020 10:52

Just pay people more to tide them over the next few months.

There is so much wrong with this statement I can’t even.

It may or may not be the right thing to do, but I’m extremely glad that someone is questioning the narrative of just throwing money at people without thinking of the long term consequences or what it’s actually doing to people and businesses. We are storing up so many problems.

wildbarnet · 23/11/2020 10:54

@lovelemoncurd

Why is Johnson surrounded by these mini Trump characters who are constantly pushing for less restrictions? Just pay people more to tide them over the next few months. Be cautious until the vaccine arrives. They continuously quote crappy research arguing for the ineffectiveness about incentives that their party have put in place ! They are very odd indeed!
Because they are thinking about the economy /other illness including mental health not everything is covid !
wildbarnet · 23/11/2020 10:56

@Holyrivolli

I find it staggering how we as a country seem to be sleepwalking into an authoritarian state and so many people are willingly giving up hard fought for freedoms in order to feel safe which in itself is such a nebulous term. The fear that has been caused by such a relatively benign virus has shown real flaws in how western democracies are structured. Of course it is sad for the families who lose a granny prematurely but shutting down huge swathes of the economy and the inability of our health/ social care services to cope with a virus that is not actually that serious to most people is shocking.
This !
TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 23/11/2020 10:58

Because they are thinking about the economy /other illness including mental health not everything is covid !

Because they are thinking of their huge assets and investments more likely. They don’t give a shit about the average person. There’s always moaning Tory bullyboys. ERG? Redwood.

LemonTT · 23/11/2020 10:58

@Holyrivolli

I find it staggering how we as a country seem to be sleepwalking into an authoritarian state and so many people are willingly giving up hard fought for freedoms in order to feel safe which in itself is such a nebulous term. The fear that has been caused by such a relatively benign virus has shown real flaws in how western democracies are structured. Of course it is sad for the families who lose a granny prematurely but shutting down huge swathes of the economy and the inability of our health/ social care services to cope with a virus that is not actually that serious to most people is shocking.
I can’t agree with this.

It’s precisely because our country, our European counterparts and the US, can’t behave authoritatively that we have ended up with a hotch potch of inadequate responses that don’t work in terms of health systems or economic systems. They just allow us to mildly mitigate because we can’t stop people socialising or make them be accountable.

Democracies who are authoritarian, because that’s culturally acceptable, did a better job. They are able to impose compulsory testing, tracing apps and forced quarantine. This meant they didn’t need to use stay at home measures.

Where as we, in the UK, told people to stay at home. Or not, because we weren’t going to stop you or penalise you. The police chiefs basically stood up and said this when some constabularies didn’t get the message.

But in March people were staying home anyway. Business was going to suffer. At least with lockdown they were entitled to government support. Because it was government directed.

sashagabadon · 23/11/2020 11:03

Actually I think it is good for democracy that we have dissenting opinions. And the economy has taken a bit of a seat ( understandably) but voices for those whose businesses are impacted by lockdown or have lost their jobs should be considered important too especially now we have an end is sight to the pandemic with treatments and the effective vaccines on the horizon.

Dustballs · 23/11/2020 11:06

Actually I think it is good for democracy that we have dissenting opinions

Surely that is what democracy is about. A variety of opinions being heard is what democracy is.

Dustballs · 23/11/2020 11:08

For those of you unsure what democracy is - watch the above. It's amusing as well as educational. Worth showing your children this also.

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