Christmas is saved

[MiaMarshmallows]

So happy that my partner and big family can all be together this year. We are all really close and get on brilliantly. So pleased at the news today!

It isn’t without risk, one of the highest risk places to contact COVID is in your own home when mixing households. But the Government know many people will mix at Christmas whatever the rules, because some just don’t care about the rules and others will have done their own risk assessment (unfortunately ignoring any non family members they then may have contact with afterwards and spread the virus to them). With the Government giving guidelines I assume they hope that some people will follow the guidelines cautiously thus mitigating some of the risk and other households won’t mix at all. Therefore, hoping it will only be the minority who will throw caution to the wind and disregard anyone else who may get caught up in their reckless behaviour.

If 40,000 people died in car accidents in a matter of months I’m sure something would be done about road safety

@ineedaholidaynow

If 40,000 people died in car accidents in a matter of months I’m sure something would be done about road safety

Indeed.

Its true we don't tell people not to drive everywhere.

We do have, tell them when there are certain risks not to drive: for example if their vehicle isn't in a road worthy state, if they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, if they have certain serious health conditions, if there there is a severe weather warning, if the road is badly damaged in some way.

These are indentified additional risks which make a normal activity something that poses risk to self and to other people.

If there were a thread about 'should I drive after a bottle of wine so I can get to my job?' I think people would have a certain reaction.

By the same token, we understand that at present there is an additional risk to normal activities which is problematic.

It looks like for a few days the government is going to do the equivalent of saying "Heroin, yep its legal for 5 days, you just crack on with trying it if you wish because we don't want to spoil your fun".

TBF I actually think that the government is somewhat between a rock and a hard place on Christmas because people will do what they want regardless to an extent.

The detail I'm most interested in is the tone the government are going to take with this; will it simply be a bland 'you are allowed to do x, y or z' with nothing further. Or a 'we generally advise those of you with certain risk factors to consider whether this is a necessity or how you can celebrate in an alternative fashion to mitigate risk, but we realise this is not something we can actively legislate so here's a limit of what you should be doing at most to try and stop you all being bellends about it'. Or a more pro-go crazy vibe with a 'Go party, get drunk, forget covid and have fun for 5 days' message.

I am hoping its going to be a 'really this isn't the brightest idea, however' type message. Simply so it doesn't undermine messaging in the next few weeks and months.

But yes, I do think suggesting that its all fine, and just a normal every day risk which we shouldn't try to mitigate is nonsense.

(And btw its not simply about covid. every bed filled with a covid patient is a bed that can't be filled with a patient with another condition. And this seems to be being missed. Its not just about the number of covid deaths - its also about what happens if you have a major incident with a multi car pile up on the M6 which requires multiple casualties to be taken to hospital but they have a longer journey because all the nearest hospitals have full intensive care bed and red wards that can't take other patients)

My kids haven't seen their grandparents for months because they live 70+ miles away from us and are in higher tiers. They won't be seeing them at Christmas either as there are 6 households to get together. The joy of divorced parents eh? I still have birthday presents for people with September birthdays that we haven't been able to give them. Time to add Xmas gifts to the growing pile thne. Even if we could get the family together, the roads are going to be chaos if people are only given 5 days to travel.

I despair at how fucking thick some people are just because you are "allowed"to do something doesn't make it any safer

On the other hand, I wouldn't say it quite as rudely as you did, but I despair at the amount of people who can't assess real risk for themselves and sit waiting for the government to tell them how many people they can or cannot have in their own homes.

I’m slightly surprised by the numbers of people saying kids haven’t seen grandparents

They live too far away to see in a day trip, and there's only been short periods of the year where we are allowed overnight visits (and which would clearly have been more unsafe than short visits).

Families with 3 or more children couldn't see grandparents when in the Rule of 6 era.

The government is knowingly condemning tens of thousands to death. They've been told this by the scientific experts. They can't claim ignorance. Very avoidable deaths, what with the vaccines around the corner. It's completely against the spirit of Christmas.

The more over run the NHS is, the fewer people are treated, that includes cancer and other serious illnesses.

To all the people who are planning a Xmas knees up, I hope you all have a shit time and come to regret your selfish decision.

@remmy not been month where I am. We were only moved into tier 2 3 days before this lockdown

@RegularHumanBartender

I despair at how fucking thick some people are just because you are "allowed"to do something doesn't make it any safer

On the other hand, I wouldn't say it quite as rudely as you did, but I despair at the amount of people who can't assess real risk for themselves and sit waiting for the government to tell them how many people they can or cannot have in their own homes.

Is funny. All those who advocate people doing their own risk assessment always have that assessment allowing them to do what they want to do...

I'm staying home regardless, I'd be too worried about us passing on the virus and with our children attending school until days before Christmas day, they're going to be a much higher risk than the rest of our extended family.

It might be unpopular but if the government is deciding to go down this route then we do need a lockdown for January or school and workplace transmittion is going to be through the roof. I'd like to keep the kids home an extra couple of weeks in January. It's a shame this will happen so soon before the vaccine but there would have been a large amount of people meeting up regardless of what the government decided.

My kids haven’t seen my parents since last Xmas and flights to them been cancelled for this Xmas
Could drive 10+ hours just for the sake of it being Xmas and seemingly covid free to allow my heartbroken mum a chance to see them or I could stay put and not take the risk of spreading it to them and god knows who else across the length of the country just because BoJo is saying we can

With a vaccine on the horizon and having already suffered a family bereavement due to covid, I won't be taking any risks over Christmas which might mean someone else I love suffers harm from this virus just as it is about to be beaten.

We will have plenty of digital contact over Christmas, maybe an outdoor walk or two if weather holds up, and will have a huge celebration when this is all over.

Flu season peaks December to February in a "normal" year so add post Christmas COVID to that and the others illnesses and RTAs and the NHS are in for a rocky ride.

Self risk assessment - a term coined to justify not following regulations brought in by the government in order to slow down a pandemic of covid 19 that is highly infectious, affects those infected on a scale of no symptoms at all through to death with no absolute reason to why it does that except that age and certain underlying conditions are definitely a risk factor, threatens to overwhelm the health services we have in place by sheer numbers of infection and associated symptoms/illness, so that said self risk assessor may do what they want to do without bearing any responsibility for any of the above happening, while accusing those who disagree of having no critical thinking skills.
The problem with 'self' risk assessments is that the risk posed goes beyond the self to other people who have no say in the level of risk they're being exposed to.

@tappitytaptap

I’m slightly surprised by the numbers of people saying kids haven’t seen grandparents. Are they all vulnerable or very elderly? At my kids school there are still grandparents doing pick up/drop off and almost all of my friends (admittedly we all have relatively young children not teens) use grandparents for part of their childcare and so have a bubble.

Nope My parents are 65 and 69 and both very healthy. They both got covid in April and were poorly but fine. They aren't worried and nor are we. We've visited them in the summer and can't wait to see them in December. They should have visited early November but obviously didn't because of lockdown.

@MoodieMare

Self risk assessment - a term coined to justify not following regulations brought in by the government in order to slow down a pandemic of covid 19 that is highly infectious, affects those infected on a scale of no symptoms at all through to death with no absolute reason to why it does that except that age and certain underlying conditions are definitely a risk factor, threatens to overwhelm the health services we have in place by sheer numbers of infection and associated symptoms/illness, so that said self risk assessor may do what they want to do without bearing any responsibility for any of the above happening, while accusing those who disagree of having no critical thinking skills. The problem with 'self' risk assessments is that the risk posed goes beyond the self to other people who have no say in the level of risk they're being exposed to.

Exactly this. Idiotic and self-aggrandising approach.

big mistake because the implication this morning is that people should use their common sense and apply personal responsibility .

To be honest from what I have seen on here that's NOT going to happen .

The virus is not going to disappear for 5 days and I think the government has again underestimated peoples intelligence and cases will shoot up and they will be blamed ( even though it wont be their fault) because people are going to selectively here the rules they want to .

Personally I wont be mixing with loads of family members at all .

@MoodieMare

Self risk assessment - a term coined to justify not following regulations brought in by the government in order to slow down a pandemic of covid 19 that is highly infectious, affects those infected on a scale of no symptoms at all through to death with no absolute reason to why it does that except that age and certain underlying conditions are definitely a risk factor, threatens to overwhelm the health services we have in place by sheer numbers of infection and associated symptoms/illness, so that said self risk assessor may do what they want to do without bearing any responsibility for any of the above happening, while accusing those who disagree of having no critical thinking skills. The problem with 'self' risk assessments is that the risk posed goes beyond the self to other people who have no say in the level of risk they're being exposed to.

Spot on. It’s nothing but a cover for “I’ll do what I want” and indicates a lack of understanding.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the whole idea of meeting up for Christmas is ludicrous. In all honesty, I can't see us getting as far as the 25th without numbers shooting right up again. Everyone is going to rush out Christmas shopping, distributing gifts, Christmas parties, meals out etc etc. And then throw in football matches and goodness knows what other crazy ideas he is coming up with and I think we'll be facing 40,000 cases a day by 25th December.

What would I do? Close the schools the week before Christmas and give those with children the chance to spend time with grandparents without fear on Christmas Day. There's no point just saying you can see people, you need to make it safe for us to see people.

@CodenameVillanelle

best of luck - I know someone in their 30s who has had it twice . Once she was very poorly . And yes that was confirmed by tests both times .

Just out of curiosity...
Those who always come with the car accident deaths. Do they know that on a yearly basis that is about 2000 people killed?
Too much, right. But nothing compared to the already 50,000+ people who died of a disease that could be stopped by not mingling, staying put, wearing a mask, closing schools (blended/online, not no school), making workplaces safer.
These measures are the equivalent of -in terms of cars-:

• driver's licence
• MOT
• headlights
• clear windshield with not spiderweb or other fractions
• seat belts
• etc....

Teenagers are mixing with 30+ households each day and though unlikely to get ill themselves they can pass it along. Allowing 3 households to mix doesn't seem that bad by comparison.

@SheepandCow

No they are not because they have clearly said use your common sense .
Every family set up is individual and from what I have seen people were just go ahead and damn the government anyway .

just because the rules have been relaxed does NOT mean you have to do anything at all .

Do you think the british public are a bunch of lemmings and if they are that's the governments fault ?