Christmas is saved

[MiaMarshmallows]

So happy that my partner and big family can all be together this year. We are all really close and get on brilliantly. So pleased at the news today!

Action girl - apologies, I read it as you’d been mixing still since 5th November.

@remmy they are my childcare bubble anyway. So laugh all you like duck. I am seeing my mum on Christmas day

@LurgyOnTheLoose

Not about tiers. I was in Tier 1 before. We are now back at 5 people dying a day in my area. Actually I don't people who were breaking the rule of 6 before lockdown. Peddling the myth that people will break the rules anyway is misleading garbage intended to try to stop restrictions.

How big's "your area", and how many people usually die per day?

@lovemusic I am disabled. So walks are a no go. My mum is fit and healthy and sees my kids everyday anyway. I have left the house for 3 weeks

*haven't

@Bluewavescrashing

How will you feel if one of your relatives becomes very sick 2 weeks later?

There's a 50 in a million chance of that and even if they do get it they have a 97% recovery rate.

Perspective

There are lots of things that it's legal to do but it's morally / ethically wrong and / or stupid .

You see your elderly relatives because it's 'allowed' and then covid spreads and they end up very ill / dead or our hospitals are overrun. Wtf, why would you??

@ElizabethG81 obviously more than 5 people are dying a day, you are being obtuse deliberately.
5 a day from Covid-19 obviously. That is 35 a week who are loved and missed and died unnecessarily. If you are one of those people who say they would have died anyway, you are deluded. Yes, maybe in 40, 30, 20, 10, 5 years.
It isn't just about deaths, it is about hospital admissions and spreading the virus onwards to people due to lack of personal and social responsibility.
Some people should have to sign an exemption clause releasing the NHS from having to treat their selfish doomed souls if they get covid-19.

The Daily Mash:

'No big Christmas gatherings' means 'Big Christmas gatherings', says UK

"THE British public believes advice to limit the size of Christmas gatherings means you should have loads of people from different households over.
Britons are grateful to the government for finally issuing clear, practical Covid advice so they can ignore it and do the exact opposite.

Donna Sheridan said: “I was worried I wouldn’t be able to have mum and dad over for Christmas dinner, but it turns out all my mates, cousins, the new neighbours and Shelley and Nina from work can come too.

“The message ‘Don’t have big Christmas gatherings’ is about as unambiguous as it gets. It’s going to be tricky cooking for 35 people but I’ll manage. I’ll just order more Aunt Bessie’s Yorkshire puds.”

Wayne Hayes said: “Being told to restrict the spread of a potentially fatal virus by having small gatherings can only mean one thing – PARTY TIME!

“Me and my flatmates are getting all the girls we know to come over and we’ll put up some mistletoe at the front door so we can snog each one and work out who’ll be up for a shag. This is an excellent plan.”

The government has now launched a campaign with a simpler message called ‘DON’T F**KING DIE, YOU IDIOTS’, causing an immediate surge in heroin use, drink driving and train-surfing."

[quote LurgyOnTheLoose]@ElizabethG81 obviously more than 5 people are dying a day, you are being obtuse deliberately.
5 a day from Covid-19 obviously. That is 35 a week who are loved and missed and died unnecessarily. If you are one of those people who say they would have died anyway, you are deluded. Yes, maybe in 40, 30, 20, 10, 5 years.
It isn't just about deaths, it is about hospital admissions and spreading the virus onwards to people due to lack of personal and social responsibility.
Some people should have to sign an exemption clause releasing the NHS from having to treat their selfish doomed souls if they get covid-19.[/quote]
Are there more excess deaths than usual? Would most of those people have died of something else if not Covid? Did they die of something else but also happened to have Covid at the same time? There's a huge difference between dying of Covid and dying with Covid.

I'm not a Covid denier at all - I wear a mask, socially distance, haven't seen family and friends for months - but I will ask questions and won't apologise for that.

A bit premature to get excited op. Yay for jan locmdown because Jan isn't depressing enough.

@ElizabethG81 these deaths have been extra. Extra on top of normal death rate. Who's to say all these extra people would have died and died then? Also if you don't care they're all dying, at least care that the NHS has to try and treat them all first.

@Dotinthecity
People die in car accidents, of cancers, in disasters but we don’t all cower in corners, wringing our hands and spouting doom and gloom. We look at the bigger picture and the actual risk and recognise that actually, life can go on and we should be living it. That’s backbone!

Yes there is risk out there, some of it is unavoidable, cancer struck me when I was a very healthy 34 year old, disasters can strike any time. Some things we can take sensible precautions against...wearing seatbelts, holding our child's hand on a busy road, getting vaccinated. In the instance of Covid, the sensible precautions are trying to social distance, try to meet up outside, try not to mix too many households, if you do - have good ventilation and social distance, wear masks when it is hard to social distance and maintain good hand and respiratory hygeine and if you are medically vulnerable take extra precautions to stay well.

We are not cowering in corners, we are doing these things, looking to a healthier future, looking after each other, staying strong...maybe that is backbone.

[quote Lelophants]@ElizabethG81 these deaths have been extra. Extra on top of normal death rate. Who's to say all these extra people would have died and died then? Also if you don't care they're all dying, at least care that the NHS has to try and treat them all first.[/quote]
Where did I say I don't care they're dying?

Personally I am not seeing anybody for Christmas. Neither are any of my family members. I don't want another lockdown in January because our government are incompetent.

Of course some people won't see family at Christmas. But it won't make any difference, we'll still be locked down in January and February anyway, probably longer, because of the millions who will throw caution to the wind. So yeah fuck you Boris you weak willed turd

I’m slightly surprised by the numbers of people saying kids haven’t seen grandparents. Are they all vulnerable or very elderly? At my kids school there are still grandparents doing pick up/drop off and almost all of my friends (admittedly we all have relatively young children not teens) use grandparents for part of their childcare and so have a bubble.

@tappitytaptap

I’m slightly surprised by the numbers of people saying kids haven’t seen grandparents. Are they all vulnerable or very elderly? At my kids school there are still grandparents doing pick up/drop off and almost all of my friends (admittedly we all have relatively young children not teens) use grandparents for part of their childcare and so have a bubble.

My parents are neither elderly nor vulnerable, yet they think they are and have therefore barely left the house since March. The government messaging has got a lot to answer for. People are talking about "normality" from spring, but I think there's going to be a lot of issues with agoraphobia and OCD. There are millions of healthy people just locking themselves away.

There are millions of healthy people just locking themselves away.

Because they are scared maybe? Who are you to judge how other people behave?

It’s not just about a government ‘message’ most people can find the info independently of the government.

@ElizabethG81 I agree. The people who are the most anxious and following ‘extra’ rules that I know seem to be the young and healthy ones. It definitely has a lot to answer for! My parents and in-laws are very pragmatic about it (my dad is a retired paramedic, and interestingly quite a lot of the medical people I know are like this).

@tappitytaptap

I’m slightly surprised by the numbers of people saying kids haven’t seen grandparents. Are they all vulnerable or very elderly? At my kids school there are still grandparents doing pick up/drop off and almost all of my friends (admittedly we all have relatively young children not teens) use grandparents for part of their childcare and so have a bubble.

My df is shielding as he is vulnerable. I have seen him a few of times since March, only once in his house. DH parents- one was vulnerable and we didn't see him the first time round. We have seen him a few times since the summer though. Mostly it's zoom though.

Relaxing the rules for a few days is about the rules, not about risk. So if you're not mixing because of the risks then there's no obligation to mix at Christmas. It's really only useful for people who wouldn't be mixing because of the rules, where it wouldn't increase risk. So I'll be mixing with my parents and my sister's family. My mum provides childcare for both of our children, so we are already risks to each other and accept that, though try to minimise other exposures. But mixing for a few days over Christmas doesn't increase our risk.

I've seen all my grandchildren since March, actually I've seen them all in September/October. Some more than others just due to geography. We've been careful and none of the hugging that seems to be the be all and end all of every grandparents life. Looking forward to seeing the local ones next week.

DH is mid 70s and has health conditions that make him vulnerable, he doesn't get close, doesn't spend too long in the same room, we are both really careful about handwashing etc. Fingers crossed he gets the vaccine soon and we can relax a bit.

@LST so will I. But I still don't get how this is allowed when for months we are told it's not safe.

Main reason for only seeing my parents once is distance. Two hundred miles is a bit far to travel to see someone on a doorstep for 15mins. So I can only take the DC if we can spend several hours in the parents home. Something they are fine about, as in my mother's words 'you are sensible'. Their school is taking a range of precautions. DHs work has precautions (and despite working intensively throughout, they haven't had a scare, let alone a case, since March when they had to travel back from France without warning). The only thing stopping them seeing us currently is rules.

[quote HazeyJaneII]@Dotinthecity
People die in car accidents, of cancers, in disasters but we don’t all cower in corners, wringing our hands and spouting doom and gloom. We look at the bigger picture and the actual risk and recognise that actually, life can go on and we should be living it. That’s backbone!

Yes there is risk out there, some of it is unavoidable, cancer struck me when I was a very healthy 34 year old, disasters can strike any time. Some things we can take sensible precautions against...wearing seatbelts, holding our child's hand on a busy road, getting vaccinated. In the instance of Covid, the sensible precautions are trying to social distance, try to meet up outside, try not to mix too many households, if you do - have good ventilation and social distance, wear masks when it is hard to social distance and maintain good hand and respiratory hygeine and if you are medically vulnerable take extra precautions to stay well.

We are not cowering in corners, we are doing these things, looking to a healthier future, looking after each other, staying strong...maybe that is backbone.[/quote]
....but you can do all these things and still see friends and family and go out and about. You don’t need the Government’s permission to do them and you certainly don’t need people pointing the finger at you for behaving in a rational manner when the “rules” are totally irrational. The vast majority of people who contract Covid 19 will be mildly ill. The vast majority of people involved in a head on crash will die but I don’t see posters denigrating people for driving every day.