The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

@IloveJKRowling

That's awful to hear Kitcat - I hope the teacher from your son's school gets better very soon.

But we've been warning of this on these threads for weeks and weeks. 2+2=4. Open schools as they have been with absolutely no PPE for staff - indeed an express directive from DfE not to wear masks in lessons, no attempt to even measure the number of asymptomatic kids or ensure rapid testing in schools - only sending home SOME children when there's a positive case in an enclosed indoor environment for hours. In these conditions, teachers could in theory get a big viral load which leads to more severe disease. If I can see it, the health professionals can. Why aren't they measuring for this to quantify the real risks? Why is literally no money being put in?

Why do the people denying risk in this country think that Italy, Spain, France are all wearing masks in schools ALL THE TIME now, children from the age of 6? They're not doing it for fun. There is a reason.

It is shameful. My dc’s school has wonderful staff, I can’t understand why we are letting them down like this, that they have to put themselves at risk every day. I wouldn’t sit in a room with 30 other people and no PPE, why should teachers have to do this ?

The director of the CDC says masks are more important than a vaccine. Countries that adopted universal mask wearing (including for children) early have 100x fewer deaths. So S Korea has less than 600 deaths while we have around 60,000.

The evidence is overwhelming at this point. Early on people weren't sure but now it's overwhelming. There are so many articles on it - here's one
www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/masks-lower-wearers-exposure-to-viruses-experts-propose-67776

The hamster studies are really quite compelling. When hamsters in a cage protected by a mask, not only do far fewer of them get ill, those that do have milder disease.

Telling teachers not to wear masks is like allowing builders on site without a hard hat - i.e. totally irresponsible. Particularly if there's not social distancing, small class sizes or adequate ventilation.

@borntobequiet

?

i was stupid, posted something that i shouldn't have and said sorry in case mnhq didn't delete it in time :)

I'm not litigious by nature, but I wouldn't be sorry to see the families of those teachers in ICU take legal action against the school/DFE for putting them in an unsafe situation.

But it would probably be argued that they might have gone into the staff room.

Litigation is hard. There was that family who lost a lady - she worked at a London railway station. They said a passenger had spat on her (although the CCTV proved that was a lie). She did I think of Covid 19 and she could have picked it up anywhere.

Her name was Belly Mujinga.

The CCTV evidence didn't prove anything was a lie Xenia. According to reports in the public domain, it was clear that 'something happened' which caused the two railway workers to back off then run away from the man, but the footage wasn't clear enough. Her and her colleague had been very clear what happened when they reported the incident to their employer at the time though.

British Transport Police, when they eventually became involved in the investigation, concluded that there wasn't enough evidence to pursue a prosecution and it later came to light that the man involved had had a negative antibody test a few days before the incident filmed on CCTV.

An extraordinarily fortunate state of affairs for Govia Thameslink Railways, who failed to call the police when the two workers reported an assault and obviously hadn't provided their staff with PPE.

Litigation is hard primarily because it's often a lone complainant against a powerful organisation, highly motivated to avoid prosecution.

On LBC at 9.33/34 caller lambasts Shapps (transport secretary) about the gaslighting in education, the Covid hokey cokey and manipulation of ONS data. Didn't catch callers name. I was cheering from my garage whilst putting shopping away. It will be on repeat.

Shapps' response "We're doing all we can, we are not going to get everything right... increased testing will help teachers yada yada". Inept response. Hastily moved on by Ferrari.

Thank you thank you to that caller!

Wow! Shame it was Shapps. He is clueless about education (not his remit, to be fair).

What is this increased testing of which he speaks?? Latest list excluded school staff.

@Piggywaspushed

What is this increased testing of which he speaks?? Latest list excluded school staff.

I was wondering the same thing. As far as I know school staff aren't included in any increased testing schemes.

I phoned to speak last week as NF mentioned it was going to be discussed (600,000 secondary students out of school isolating at the moment) and it was dropped as a topic in favour of electric cars.

Of course anyone can pick it up anywhere, althought he media (and MN) tends to agree healthworkers pick up covid at work and tend to show sympathy there .

Notwithstanding xenia you do know an employer has a duty of care to keep its staff safe.

@Piggywaspushed I know he was very flustered (Shapps). Caller was apoplectic. Wouldn't surprise me if he had phoned in with a transport ruse and changed it to education on line (although they can cut callers off so maybe I'm in too much of a conspiracy there). NF moved conversation on very quickly.

The whole 'you can pick it up anywhere' argument is partly why we have home deliveries (not entirely - we did mostly before covid, it's easier). Now we're WFH DH and I literally do not go anywhere other than school drops, where we spend max 1 min outside, socially distanced and masked dropping off our kids.

If we get it, it's from the kids being in school WITHOUT MASKS. And I will be extremely cross and if well enough, will try and take legal action. I wrote to both schools before they opened in Sept and said the evidence (and WHO) said masks needed if can't maintain 2m. Of course, those poor teachers in the ICU are too ill and the families too stressed and drained to start legal action. I hope that there are some good lawyers out there who might take this up though.

I don't only think it's only awful for teachers I think it shows that this government - in general, even when risks are blatantly obvious - are willing to sacrifice worker health and safety for their goals (also see healthcare workers and PPE at the start of this crisis). I think it's frightening how blatantly they are doing this - and it bodes ill for workers' rights to a safe workplace after Brexit, when we'll have fewer legal protections from the EU.

So many schools are now asking parents to mask up for drop off and pick up and it's ridiculous because it's outside and easy to social distance. The utter ridiculousness of it when the kids of the masked parents have been in a tiny classroom together breathing in each others exhalations all day.

I think the thing that makes me so cross is their willingness to stick clinically vulnerable teachers in the 'line of fire'. I noticed that next week all shielded children and staff are expected back, even at top tier.

I think the thing that makes me so cross is their willingness to stick clinically vulnerable teachers in the 'line of fire'. I noticed that next week all shielded children and staff are expected back, even at top tier.

Yes - this is the 'utterly blatant lack of concern for health and safety' bit. At DD2s school there are a few clinically vulnerable kids. They are wearing masks and/or visors - the school says it's encouraging anyone who wants to, to do it. But it's not fair is it? Those kids now stand out, I'm sure it's hard for them to be the only ones. And it's not a hard thing, to wear a thin mask. It's meant to be a C of E school - surely the Christian thing is to actually protect those most vulnerable? Why can't we all do it to protect them? They'll get some benefit from wearing their mask, but not as much as if everyone did it (or even 50%, 60%).

I can't believe how selfish everyone is being. My DDs both have masks and wore them over the summer when needed (and were quite excited when they got them and wore them around the house all day!). They would wear them if everyone else did but DD1 said 'there's nothing worse than being the kid that stands out, Mum'. She's not going to be the only one, the first one. Some adult leadership is needed and the heads are failing.

(and the government obviously but I've given up on them)

My view on masks is that the government are not mandating more of it because it just is not popular here amongst the general population. It wasn't that controversial in France or Italy to roll it out in schools, but is more of a problem here. Why? What is it about British culture that is so scared of mandating masks etc. It must be linked to culture and liberalism. As I said in my DD's quite international independent school mask wearing is perfectly normal and a non issue. In my DS' state primary at pick-up even though the Council has requested mask wearing, hardly anyone is doing it. Mostly Asians and the Europeans in the school community are, not the Brits. They just don't like it so they don't want their kids to do it, all day every day in school.

They just don't like it so they don't want their kids to do it, all day every day in school.

That's a pretty poor reason not to make it safer for teachers. Pretty disgraceful really.

And the government has mandated it in shops and public transport so I really don't see the difference - if anything it's more important in schools given the duration of exposure.

Three children now (including my son) tested positive in one y10 class.
4 other previous periods of SI.
No wonder school staff are concerned.

And I mean tested positive now, the same week. How many others?

The UsforThem is also stepping up its campaign.
Perhaps they'd actually like to talk to those of us who've been badly impacted by this? Whose y10 children have spent a total of just 21 days in school since Sept in a perpetual cycle of imprisonment for the whole family of 8 weeks self isolation. How is that healthy for my 14 year old? Those of us whose children are currently ill with Covid along with his classmates.

I don't know... there is quite a vocal French Us4Them type organisation, and also in Germany.

I think the rot set in a while ago when Jenny Harries , based on no educational research whatsoever, said it was terribly disruptive to leaning, and another scientist said children don't catch or spread it. Now utterly debunked, this idea does seem to stick.

Attendance data in.

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