Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Coronavirus and care homes

172 replies

WinnieHarlow · 21/11/2020 08:39

Having just read the awful situation where 15 residents in a care home have died, surely allowing loved ones to visit could exacerbate this situation? Its a dreadful situation. Is a solution to seek alternative accommodation for the loved one in care, until Covid is over?

OP posts:
tattooedmummy1 · 21/11/2020 19:37

DappledOliveGroves

Whilst, as a carer, I don't necessarily agree with your points, I just wanted to say I understand Flowers dementia is bloody awful. I've been specialising in dementia and end of life for a number of years and I can honestly hand on heart say I believe it's so much more difficult for people like you, the family. The people who love her, to watch that. My heart really does go out to you. FlowersWine

ladybird69 · 21/11/2020 19:38

My mum moved into a care home the day before the lockdown. She had lots of health issues but nothing life threatening, I buried her this week. She was looking forward to making friends and joining in with the activities then the next day they were all shut in their rooms and no visitors. I don’t have anything but admiration for the carers they’ve been amazing and worked so hard but there had to have been another way to have handled this.

MiniTheMinx · 21/11/2020 19:48

My father reached crisis point during the last lockdown. He went into a specialist dementia unit. I could not have coped with caring for him. He was drinking, aggressive, shouting at us, trying to hit DH, kicking the door in, ringing the emergency services daily, and thought every woman wanted an affair with him. he had always been a bit of a character and a very stubborn man, with dementia he was a nightmare on steroids. He nearly pushed me to breaking point. He is safe, at least. He wasn't safe in his own home, and he was increasingly a danger to other people. Covid, or no Covid I do not want to look after him, I would rather try to remember at least some of the good in him. I had a lovely childhood, and I am fairly certain he would not have wanted me to suffer with him. I know I don't want my DC to give up their lives to looking after me if I develop dementia.

NerrSnerr · 21/11/2020 19:54

Many care agencies are on their knees right now. I work in a team where we try to set up packages of care and in some areas people are waiting weeks for capacity because of carers isolating etc. It's not easy in the community right now.

NerrSnerr · 21/11/2020 19:57

I didn't know that the councils refuse to pay for care if someone goes to hospital. I'm curious to know does the funding also stop for nursing home patients funded by the NHS?

In our area both the LA and NHS continue paying when someone are in hospital. Sometimes the care home will give notice if they suspect they cannot meet their needs on discharge (or they have been struggling to meet their needs for a while). Of course payments will be stopped after the notice period but they'll be assessed for a new placement with the appropriate funding.

MiniTheMinx · 21/11/2020 20:00

NerrSnerr, I have just written an email to my MP about this. It came to my attention a)LA were allocating extra funds to contract more hrs of domiciliary care B)agencies had no Covid secure working practices in relation to the number of potential contacts a client might have in their home C)the government guidance to dom care agencies was woefully inadequate and from talking to other people who I know doing this work agencies are not offering weekly testing.

MoodieMare · 21/11/2020 20:06

Despite us opening up 2 weeks ago to visits under controlled conditions, around half of our residents are still waiting for their families to even get in touch and arrange a visit. Letters, emails and phone calls sent to all family members describing the arrangements.
We can't force people to visit. No matter how much we can see how it's affecting their loved ones. The ones without capacity are actually fairing better because they don't understand that visiting is now allowed, and it's now up to the family. That's an incredibly hard pill to swallow. But then many care home residents are used to it in all honesty. "Ah they've got busy lives" is how they try and cope with it.
While a nice idea to think that families could take their loved one home and care for them, even temporarily, for a lot of people it's just not feasible or safe. If it were, why would the person be in a home to start with?
Last Christmas the residents who went home to a family member for dinner or the day was a grand total of zero. Around half had a half an hour visit. Ask yourself why before thinking that people can just be sent off to relatives during covid.
I have around 15 years experience in care, with hundreds of people, in that time there have been a handful of people who have had daily visits, the vast majority are weekly or longer.
It's hard to care for someone from my pov with complex physical needs, dementia, challenging behaviour, incontinence - and I get paid and get to go home, nor do I have the emotional attachment to the depth of them being my parent or aunt etc. I cannot imagine what that must be like, and I admire anyone who tries to do that, and certainly those who succeed, but it's not viable for so, so many people for so many reasons.

And as for the lady who took her mum from the care home, capable of 'expert' care because she was a retired nurse. She was arrested for pushing past a care worker and into the home - putting all the staff and residents at risk, not trying to see her mum. She had absolutely nothing in place to care for her mum outside the home, from what I could gather the only equipment she had was the wheelchair the lady was sitting in, not even medication. Hardly the actions of someone who was well placed to provide "expert" care. And if she was capable of doing so, why was she not already? Pre covid? Why was her mum in a care home in the first place?

As a humble care worker I think it's been a shit show quite honestly. It's showed up a lot of the problems that have been present for years, but have been highlighted now. Restrictions placed on care homes, without any effort to sort it out, PPE diverted, tests taking too long to come back, patients sent out without tests for care homes to cope with, exactly how do you stop a confused dementia sufferer wandering without some sort of restraint? Is that restraint justified because of covid?
So many questions that don't really have answers.

tattooedmummy1 · 21/11/2020 20:24

@MoodieMare

Despite us opening up 2 weeks ago to visits under controlled conditions, around half of our residents are still waiting for their families to even get in touch and arrange a visit. Letters, emails and phone calls sent to all family members describing the arrangements. We can't force people to visit. No matter how much we can see how it's affecting their loved ones. The ones without capacity are actually fairing better because they don't understand that visiting is now allowed, and it's now up to the family. That's an incredibly hard pill to swallow. But then many care home residents are used to it in all honesty. "Ah they've got busy lives" is how they try and cope with it. While a nice idea to think that families could take their loved one home and care for them, even temporarily, for a lot of people it's just not feasible or safe. If it were, why would the person be in a home to start with? Last Christmas the residents who went home to a family member for dinner or the day was a grand total of zero. Around half had a half an hour visit. Ask yourself why before thinking that people can just be sent off to relatives during covid. I have around 15 years experience in care, with hundreds of people, in that time there have been a handful of people who have had daily visits, the vast majority are weekly or longer. It's hard to care for someone from my pov with complex physical needs, dementia, challenging behaviour, incontinence - and I get paid and get to go home, nor do I have the emotional attachment to the depth of them being my parent or aunt etc. I cannot imagine what that must be like, and I admire anyone who tries to do that, and certainly those who succeed, but it's not viable for so, so many people for so many reasons.

And as for the lady who took her mum from the care home, capable of 'expert' care because she was a retired nurse. She was arrested for pushing past a care worker and into the home - putting all the staff and residents at risk, not trying to see her mum. She had absolutely nothing in place to care for her mum outside the home, from what I could gather the only equipment she had was the wheelchair the lady was sitting in, not even medication. Hardly the actions of someone who was well placed to provide "expert" care. And if she was capable of doing so, why was she not already? Pre covid? Why was her mum in a care home in the first place?

As a humble care worker I think it's been a shit show quite honestly. It's showed up a lot of the problems that have been present for years, but have been highlighted now. Restrictions placed on care homes, without any effort to sort it out, PPE diverted, tests taking too long to come back, patients sent out without tests for care homes to cope with, exactly how do you stop a confused dementia sufferer wandering without some sort of restraint? Is that restraint justified because of covid?
So many questions that don't really have answers.

This. My god, this.
Muchtoomuchtodo · 21/11/2020 20:25

With respect to op, I’m not sure that she understands the complexities and legalities of MHA, capacity, DoLs, power of attorneys and quite how care is the community is provided and how much capacity is available for that at the moment.
That’s before we start to think about equipment provision and training, appropriate housing space and layouts.
Shall we move onto the different types of dementia and how that affects people, how their needs change through a 24 hour period as well as day to day?

PollyRoulson · 21/11/2020 20:37

MoodieMare just thank you for being a "humble care worker" . In my mind you are the amazing caring wonderful selfless professionals. You make a difference ever minute of every day - huge thanks for all you do.

ksohh0 · 21/11/2020 21:03

Where does the idea that everyone in a care home has dementia and no quality of life come from? Care homes were locked down to protect ALL residents as best as possible. My mother is in one and unfortunately has got it anyway, but her problems are chronic illnesses/mobility (not dementia) and she was very much looking forward to being able to go out and about again. Who knows if she'll ever leave it now.

I will also say I know how much pressure care staff have been under and I suspect the virus would have gotten in anyway, but up until a few weeks ago my mum was regularly telling me about staff members having their masks pulled down when dealing with her (and yes it was raised with the home and manager). Appalling behaviour. They're being sensible now half the residents, or more, have it.

DappledOliveGroves · 21/11/2020 21:32

@ksohh0 whilst I cannot see much, if any, quality of life in a dementia care home, having seen my grandmother in a 'standard' (non-dementia specialist) care home, I can't really see it's a place where anyone would willingly choose to go.

By the time I need any type of physical care, or at the point I've lost my faculties so that I can no longer live independently, I'd rather bow out and leave my money to my daughter than spend my life's assets and savings on care.

A care home, let's face it, is somewhere a person goes and waits to die, whilst spending inordinate amounts of money in the process. Around 50% of the elderly entering care homes die within the first year. Others, like my mother and grandmother, linger for years. I cannot comprehend ever being in that position and I pray I die before I ever end up in a care home. I look at the poor bastards where my mother lives - if they were animals they'd have been put down long ago.

The idea that death is the worst outcome and must be avoided at all costs is naive and cruel. Cruelty is locking my mother in her room for 3 weeks, with her pounding on the door to be let out, and denying her the right to spend time with her family.

ksohh0 · 21/11/2020 21:41

@DappledOliveGroves My mother does not feel the way you do, and as she's the one who may yet die from covid and was quite keen to keep living (yes, even in her 'depressing, bleak' care home) your argument seems rather crass. Should I tell her now she's in there she should be ready to die since there was nothing left for her anyway? Should I explain what an idiot she was for talking about the things she wanted to do once there was a vaccine? How about I print your comment out and post it to her. I'm sure once she realises all was lost anyway she'll be absolutely fine with having covid!

ancientgran · 21/11/2020 21:50

Old people die in care homes, covid spreads in care homes, we are repeatedly told the high number of BAME deaths is due to multi generation homes. Old people are vulnerable if they are mixing with people who are going out into the world.

It is more striking when it is a care home as it concentrates the numbers, I don't think many families will have 15 elderly relatives living with them but it doesn't mean it is any safer.

DappledOliveGroves · 21/11/2020 21:54

@ksohh0 I imagine she could die of many things - Covid is not the only killer.

As I'd say to anyone, whether old or not, live life, embrace freedom and uphold liberty - we may all die at any time, death is an inevitable part of life and screwing life, the economy and our children's future is not the way forwards. I do not agree with any lockdown and cannot fathom the willingness by people to give away fundamental rights without question.

CherryPavlova · 21/11/2020 21:57

It’s perhaps worth remembering that many care home residents are neither elderly nor demented.

ancientgran · 21/11/2020 22:04

what is the perfect end to life? To know that you are loved, valued and with the people who mean the most to you? Well it isn't dying terrified as you choke to death. DIL is working on a covid ward and is traumatised with what she has seen. She has 20 years experience so not a naive novice when it comes to death.

ancientgran · 21/11/2020 22:12

again I really like your posts. How do other cultures cope? - and what would have happened 40 years ago without the advent of care homes? Of course there were care homes 40 years ago, what a ridiculous thing to say. Both my grandfathers were in care homes 40 years ago.

100 years ago people would probably have ended their days in the poor house.

ancientgran · 21/11/2020 22:16

Thinking about it I knew a care home nearly 60 years ago, it was run by nuns and was near to my school. The nuns used to come to do RE lessons at my school once a week, it was their treat of the week and I used to think what an awful time they must have had in the home if coming to spend the day with unruly teenage school girls was a treat.

WinnieHarlow · 24/11/2020 07:04

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/news/elderly-leave-care-homes-christmas/

Good news.

@ancientgran - I’m not saying they didn’t exist, I’m saying there were not so many about. My parents, my aunts/uncles parents didn’t use this as an option for their parents - whereas it’s more likely to be used as an option for my parents/aunts/uncles.

OP posts:
WinnieHarlow · 24/11/2020 07:32

Norway are recognised as a country providing best care for the elderly in Europe:

Coronavirus and care homes
OP posts:
MereDintofPandiculation · 24/11/2020 10:39

Shall we move onto the different types of dementia and how that affects people, how their needs change through a 24 hour period as well as day to day? And yet they're still regarded as having "mainly social needs" and not nursing needs, and are unlikely to get their care funded by the NHS.

100 years ago people would probably have ended their days in the poor house. 40 years ago my mother died in a nursing home. 60 years ago my grandfather and the rest of his generation were petrified that they'd be admitted to the local hospital because it was the former workhouse.

It's wrong to keep an older person alive for years with not quality of life when they don't wish to be kept alive; and it adds insult to injury to charge then £40-50,000 a year to do so. It's also wrong to assume that everyone in a care home would prefer to die, and to refuse them treatment. Everyone is an individual with their own view on how they want to run their life; the "elderly" don't all think alike any more than "women" do.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread