To ignore track and trace?

[Coldandcross]

I was at a staff meeting last week. We are all wfh - this is only the second time since March we have met in person, for a necessary reason. All the precautions were carried out - we met in a massive room, with masks on, chairs spaced 2m apart, plenty of sanitising etc. 2 days later someone at the meeting gets symptoms. They spoke to T&T and told them about staff meeting (along with other movements the week leading up to their symptoms), and were told that because all safety precautions were taken, no one at meeting has to isolate.
Now however everyone is getting T&T texts telling them to isolate for 14 days, presumably because the phone’s proximity Bluetooth thing has kicked in.
So, who do we follow? What the T&T team said to the infected person over the phone, or what our texts are saying through the app?

They spoke to T&T and told them about staff meeting (along with other movements the week leading up to their symptoms), and were told that because all safety precautions were taken, no one at meeting has to isolate.

Ring T&T yourself and speak to an actual human yourself.

Its Test and Trace and their guidance says face masks are not a reason to not isolate. Did you actually speak to them about your situation?

In this guidance, a ‘contact’ is a person who has been near (within 2 metres) to someone who has tested positive forCOVID-19and this contact was any time from 2 days before until 10 days after onset of symptoms in the infected person (this is when they are infectious to others). For the purposes ofcontact tracing and isolation, however, ‘close contact’ means having face-to-face contact with someone less than a metre away (even if a face-covering or face-mask is worn) or being within 2 metres of an infected person for 15 minutes or more.

Bil called them when he got texts and they told him he didn't need to self isolate one he informed them that he was across the room from the person who had covid and didn't even speak to that person.

You don't have to isolate because of the app- you do if you are called

I had Cv19, I was given 3 different dates by track and trace for when I could stop isolating. My son who tested positive same day- with same start day also got 3. We had 5 different dates between us

T&T is a shambles.

I would go with the isolation, because covid can spread over 2 m and masks are not 100 percent effective.

I would hate to put others at risk.

Why would you risk it though? You know you were in a meeting room with someone who was infected. Hopefully the precautions will mean that no others caught it but there are no guarantees. You are wfh anyway, you won’t lose pay, so why wouldn’t you just play it as safe as possible to avoid possibly passing it on? This is what I really struggle with about people’s attitude to it. What’s the bare legal minimum rather than what’s the safest feasible option. Of course you should avoid contact with other people until you’re sure those safety measures were effective.

@Coldandcross

Thanks all, I think I’ll trust what the human track and trace team said, which is that because of measures in place, we don’t need to isolate. Clearly the app doesn’t recognise all the measures that were taken (yes, windows open too). In our area of the UK we are not in full lockdown, and it does have big implications for some in terms of childcare etc.

You're 'trusting' what someone else told you the human track & trace seem apparently said.

You need to speak to them about your situation. A mask is not a failsafe

I would double check with track and trace just to cover your own back. It sounds like they will tell you not to worry and then you have followed official advise rather than what someone else told you they said iyswim?

So the messages are coming from the app right?
But T&T people said the meeting is low risk and you dont need to self isolate?

1- do YOU have the app? Are all people in the meeting with the app told to self isolate?
2- legally you only have to self isolate if T&T people tell you to do so. Not the app.
3- the app can get things wrong depending on many factors, starting with where you leave your phone.

Btw, I would go with the physical T &T advice. Not the app, esp if you don’t have it yourself.

I wouldn't isolate. It's a glitch. And there is no proof that the meeting was the reason. People have private lives.

Talk to test and trace. Hope you can get through to them.

Track and trace is useless most schools are being told to turn it off because it doesn’t recognise a wall between classes. So in our school kids were told to isolate when they’d been separated by a brick wall and 100% didn’t come into contact however as they were either side of the wall they were within 2 meters. We as staff have been told to turn it off.

Err on the side of caution and listen to the T&T. It's not long now. People's lives are potentially at stake if you don't. Precautions help but aren't failsafe. Don't be selfish and risk killing people for the sake of you being put out a bit for a week and a half.

Yeah the app is a bit of a shit tbh. I live in a semi and have had covid. The layout of the house is such that our bedside tables are the other side of the wall and my next door neighbour has had to isolate pretty much because of her phones proximity to my phone, but we've had no contact

@Apandemicyousay

T&T told a relative of mine the criteria is contacts 24 hours prior to symptoms or positive test (if no symptoms), so sounds like you are out of their time interval unless rules recently changed.

It’s anyone whose been in direct contact 48 hours before symptoms or a positive test if no symptoms.

App is a pile of rubbish, equally if you have it then you have to follow it

I have the app and I got a text. Those who didn’t have the app didn’t get a text, and haven’t been contacted via the team as the team decided it was low risk, having heard what precautions were in place.
We are ringing and getting advice as an employer, as currently their system has given out conflicting advice. It’s not up to us to make a decision, as pp have said, we’re going to ask them for their official advice and will follow what they say.

You cannot be 100% sure @Coldandcross that you are not infected.

The people in the room would have touched the doors and possibly used the loos.

It's not simply about being 2 metres apart.

I am actually shocked that someone at T&T has the authority to pass judgement over and beyond the app when they were not in the room and cannot possibly see what happened or may have happened.

Masks are not 100% effective for a start. Being 2 mtrs apart helps but it's certainly not 100% effective. It's a guide to reducing infection.

You should isolate.

@ScrapThatThen

It's not illegal not to isolate if the app tells you to I believe for exactly this reason (you might have been the other side of a perspex screen but the app doesn't know). It's reasonable to do as the human track and trace said.

Why does anyone use this?

OP you don’t need to isolate.

Ap is advisory only

You are legally required to isolate if you are called by Track and Trace. Not otherwise.

Personally I'd be be even more careful than normal but not fully isolate - unless I or someone else in the group started with symptoms. The scenario you have described makes that very unlikely.

You do know that a face mask unless a medical one only reduces infections by a tiny percentage? And that there is research showing one person can infect a train carriage of 30 feet long?

I haven’t downloaded the app but at my workplace those who do have it have all been told to turn it off whilst at work as we have Covid measures in place which means nobody should be within 2 metres of another person for 15+ minutes. Obviously the GPS on phones isn’t precise and if phones are in the same room, or even neighbouring rooms, it’s likely to register staff as being close to each other even if they’re not.

I’d follow human advice however I’d also consider door handles - did you touch any, did you use the toilet?