Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
   
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
   
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
   
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
   
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
   
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
   
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
   
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
   
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.
   

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

[SansaSnark]

@Juststopswimming

And how about being heartless towards the kids for whom school is a sanctuary? Away from abuse, where they can stay warm and fed?

Oh wait I forgot. You're only vulnerable if you're vulnerable to covid. Silly me.

How is school a sanctuary when you can told to isolate for 2 weeks at the drop of a hat?

How is school a sanctuary when there is no predictability for vulnerable kids?

I have had one of the most vulnerable students in my tutor group crying during lunchtime this week as she is terrified of self isolating and not being able to leave the house for 2 weeks. During lockdown 1.0 she was able to come into school every day as normal. But if she is told to self isolate that won't happen.

Also, the stability at school is being eroded because teachers are having to self isolate etc. This means regular supply teachers, doubling up of classes, room changes and so on. This is difficult for all children but it's even harder for those who are vulnerable as routine is part of what helps them feel secure in school.

The reality of what is happening in school is not "business as usual" and if we could provide more stability through e.g. Blended learning for most and vulnerable/key workers in all the time, that would genuinely be better for most vulnerable children I think.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Op I've seen the new updated guidance and it would be nigh on impossible to get older teens to adhere too.
One would need to have them all lined up, before entering a classroom and be personally supervised to gel and wash hands before putting on and removing masks. Some students re wear the same mask over and over again. Sometimes the person supposed to deliver these messages, is not engaged in that process so it simply gets lost.

It's been a battle to actually get some heating on, with the windows open because people in those areas are still working on the... This is wasteful... Idea...

[mrshoho]

@JacobReesMogadishu

If the staff room is an issue (I know it’s only a small part) maybe that needs looking at? I work in a hospital and staff only allowed in the staff room for a max of 5 mins, so literally just enough time for a sandwich and some water. It does mean no proper breaks, on a 13 hour shift but guess it may help reduce transmission between staff which is happening on some wards.

The staffroom issue is a red herring and a distraction from the fact that it is in the classrooms where transmission is happening. One particular poster keeps blaming the teachers for huddling in the staffroom on their coffee break. Honestly that is not happening in my school and I doubt it is like this in any school right now. Our staffroom did reopen but limited to 15 and chair positioning was measured. We have to wipe down our seating area afterwards and it's so grim most just sit in their cars now to eat lunch. We do not get coffee breaks!

[Roo1000]

@Whyarewehardofthinking

I couldn’t agree more.

[TheGreatWave]

We’ve even had kids being sent in while families were waiting for their test results, and shock horror results were positive.

I know someone who had symptoms and was waiting on a test told by a dc's school to still send them in. Not all schools are doing it right.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Sansa blended learning is a fabulous solution.
Whats happening has shown up how behind many schools are with their technology which is astonishing. The gov needs to roll out it consultants ASAP.
It only took us 1 hour of being shown Google to get on line and we were.
Some schools have taken 9 months to understand the possibilities of this.

[Roo1000]

@mrshoho

Same at our school. Limited to 6 people in the staff room and they have to be from the same bubble.

[monkeytennis97]

@Mummyoflittledragon

This one;

Covid: Children more likely to be infected in second wave www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54937486

[NullcovoidNovember]

The great wave, the problem is its all got so confusing.

I si for one day whilst awaiting my ds test results as developed some symptoms and I was questioned as to why I si...

And that I didn't need too.
Information is flabby and is pumped out and the main key messages get lost.
Ventilation. Hands, face, space. If in doubt test, if in doubt, si. Don't go anywhere when si.

[Susanwouldntlikeit]

These ‘Boffins’ may be able to collect data and number crunch - minimal skill required to do that these days/ they are severely limited in their ability to analyse and interpret it.
The virus is now endemic so it is in the community and the possibility to limit transmission or eradicate has gone.
Lockdown is a crude measure that just doesn’t work because done services have to remain open for society to function, and so the virus to continue to spread in those locations. The nonsense about SD and masks is just that -those measures are ineffectual and it is not possible to make those places ‘covid secure’.
The nature of schools and schools children means that germs spread ‘tweed ever thus and we have to accept that and put resources into treating people with severe symptoms, not in a ridiculous effort to avoid being infected because there is no effective method to achieve that.
In my school we have the minimum mitigation’s for Covid as required by the Dfe, no more than that. Everyone has to wear —pointless— masks in the corridors indoors, but in the classrooms only a few whose parents have terrified them into thinking it sill keep them ‘safe’.
In a medium sized secondary with a large catchment area of boroughs with ‘high cases’ we have had ONE member of staff tested positive and none of the pupils s/he teaches. We have had ONE child test positive who was asymptomatic but the child’s family are —bonkers— part of a volunteer random tested group.
We are not demanding PPE/plastic screens/blended learning we just carry on teaching as normally as possible and definitely do not want the sort of restrictions that done posted on here are demanding.
I’m actually amazed that MN allows co-ordinated group posting by a tiny coterie on here, whipped up from their Staffroom Republic thread.

[MichaelMumsnet]

Hi all, and thanks for the reports. We've banned the returning troll and deleted their posts.

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

@Northernsoulgirl45

Juststopswimming

I absolutely knew who had started this thread before even reading it

Me too because the ops posts are always very well thought out and backed up by data.

Noble is amazing. She continues to post factual threads in the face of aggression and outright lies from the seriously dim.

[monkeytennis97]

@MichaelMumsnet

Hi all, and thanks for the reports. We've banned the returning troll and deleted their posts.

Yay!!!

[SansaSnark]

@Time2change2

Anyone who is suggesting blended learning is coming from a place of either naivety or privilege.
A large slice of this countries kids are disadvantaged. Learning at home for many of these kids just wouldn’t ever happen.
Many kids not classed as disadvantaged and learning at home still wouldn’t happen for many.
For lots of kids it would just be only attending school every other week, and in between doing something totally different (not learning or educational)
Many kids will really struggle with mild sen and will feel unable to work away from school.
Others will give it a go but in reality be so distracted at home that learning won’t come close to the quality of school work.
It’s schools open or schools closed. Neither are good options but sometimes you have to go with the lesser of 2 evils and that is most definately schools staying open

So how does having to self isolate for two weeks at random points in the term benefit these kids?

[NullcovoidNovember]

Susan I would be interested in your room set up etc.

Some rooms where we are, are brilliant, others are tiny boxes.

Before half term cases started to snow ball.
I think a two weeks school lock down would have been helpful.

[stairway]

The r rate is going down now despite schools staying open. By the end of the new lock down it will be 1 or lower hopefully. Schools should be getting extra funding to cover supply teachers and ECV teachers and students should be working from home. If the r rate is going down students catching covid is not too concerning as they won’t be getting a vaccine anyway.

[Whyarewehardofthinking]

We don't have a staff room sadly, it is now an isolation room as we can't have mixing bubbles, so we need 5 rooms. If we want to eat it is either in your room or outside. Well, I'm science, so I can't eat in my room... Outside it is. Whilst on duty.

I'm deeply saddened by some posters saying that we are abandoning our vulnerable students. Do you have any idea of the amount of work that goes into supporting those students and families? Over lockdown they had weekly visits, daily phone calls. If we couldn't get through it was immediately sent to other agencies, including the police. It is those families that are now going through periods of 'isolating' because someone has symptoms so they are now at even more risk. They don't test, just keep the kids away and our hands are almost completely tied.

Our DSL has a newborn at home and hasn't had paternity leave due to the size of his workload. This is how much we are putting into our vulnerable kids. Never accuse us of ignoring them or not caring.

[canigooutyet]

My sons secondary - staff room is closed, (staff are taking flasks),
unless they can go home, no one is allowed off premises during the day to reduce risk

Not many parents do the school run at secondary, staff are out there nicely telling them to fuck off, and threats of names handed over for fines. By the end of the first week, this had stopped. (Yea they probably made up the fine shit but it worked).

Students are wearing masks as they were given the option.

Still hasn’t stopped CV ripping through the school.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the government aren’t doing anything simply because once it’s ripped through the schools that’s it. They have some immunity for the next however long. And the rest, like care home back in March is just collateral damage. If it wasn’t they would be doing everything to ensure they were safe spaces that are fit for purpose.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Blended learning is not naive.

I've seen it and done it in practise with vulnerable kids thanks. Implemented properly, it does work and I'm so proud my setting could keep those kids going, through lock down. Emotionally, socially, mentally it was the best thing for them.
It was very much business as usual straight after lock down and if a student was not logged on by 9am then they were chased.

[MrPickles73]

If you don't live in a multi generational household with granny does it matter? I'm so bored of this. We are pissing away our economy and our children's futures over something that's risky for the over 70s. The rest of us need to suck it up.

[pippitysqueakity]

@JacobReesMogadishu, as repeatedly said by pp, staffrooms really not the issue as most are closed. I know one pp has said theirs is a problem, but it is an issue that has been looked at and in the main addressed. (Not said snarking, btw, this is a long thread, )

[wildbarnet]

Not another school
Post jeez there is nOTHiNG you can do unless you pull your kids out
Teenager mental health and suicides through the roof I would be more worried about that than this bloody virus

[mrshoho]

@MrPickles73

If you don't live in a multi generational household with granny does it matter? I'm so bored of this. We are pissing away our economy and our children's futures over something that's risky for the over 70s. The rest of us need to suck it up.

Well sorry you are bored but yes it does. Can you see that it is a problem for the wider community. Kids bring it home, parents catch it and go out to work etc passing it on. This is affecting the economy that you are so concerned about. If we had done everything possible to reduce transmission on schools we may be in a better position now rather than in our second lockdown.

[mrshoho]

@wildbarnet

Not another school
Post jeez there is nOTHiNG you can do unless you pull your kids out
Teenager mental health and suicides through the roof I would be more worried about that than this bloody virus

Random, no notice school closures due to no staff and/self isolation are more detrimental to our kids mental health and anxiety.

[canigooutyet]

@wildbarnet

Not another school
Post jeez there is nOTHiNG you can do unless you pull your kids out
Teenager mental health and suicides through the roof I would be more worried about that than this bloody virus

So instead we shut up and pretend the issues aren’t there?
If people don’t raise concerns of course nothing will change.
Odd way of thinking imo, just going along with things even when you don’t agree with them.