So...does Borris really have a plan in the pipeline so families can be together for Christmas?

[BlowMeToBermuda]

Hi,

With rumours swirling, does anyone think there is actually a "together for Christmas" plan?

Before anyone shoots me down, I'm not saying I believe there should be one necessarily. There are certainly more important plans needing to be put together right now.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love to be with family for Christmas, but I just can't see how.

Thoughts?

aren't the four nations meeting to discuss options , but this is ever evolving so things will change
People dying today haven't likley caught covid in the last week so couple weeks time will be a better reflection on englands part lockdown , guessing wales should see soon if circuit breaker worked and can't remember off top off ny head scotland and irelands restrictions. So they may have ideas of what they would like to do etc but all will depend on what happens in the coming weeks

@Chaotic45

I think we'll be the same, unless we can all quarantine for a couple of weeks beforehand which isn't practical. The fact there's a vaccine imminent helps the decision to hold off on mixing with people in vulnerable categories if it can be avoided.

A vaccine is a possibility it hasn't passed final stages yet and its not going to be administered in a month
The idea of trying various measures now is to bring cases down to allow a little more freedom
We are a country that celebrates christmas mostly and that is a time for family etc often only time some families see each other with work commitments etc
I think providing numbers start declining in next few weeks then christmas may have a few less restrictions like maybe 8 can meet or 2 households , that kind of thing . It won 't be a lets forget everything for 3 days , other countries still allow meeting up at present and for some people maybe its potentially their last xmas or whatever . If i can spend time with my family over xmas then I will as is my parents wish to have us and dc over , they are over 60's in reasonable health and its a risk they want to take , my mum is working daily anyway as no pension yet and needs to pay bills so is at risk everyday dealing with members of the public

aren't the four nations meeting to discuss option

Yes, the four nations are discussing, makes sense to have a single rule, or you'll end up with confusion and a ludicrous situation where parents in Scotland can't host their kids in England but the kids can host the parents.

I definitely think they'll allow 3 households, so a couple can host both sets of parents, or you'll have arguments up and down the country on who's parents get the invite.

Remember too that some of the most vulnerable who would ordinarily go to family for Christmas, would be relying on carers to pop in so if they can't visit the carers need to work.

I don't think it will be a complete free for all but they need to hit a balance, between what works for families, the risk of people ignoring, and the danger of the virus.

I don't think it will be a complete free for all but they need to hit a balance, between what works for families, the risk of people ignoring, and the danger of the virus.

And they need to clampdown hard on NYE

@GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly @mrshoho Cant take the credit im afraid. It was shared on my fb but i thought it was too damn good not to share on here.

Remember too that some of the most vulnerable who would ordinarily go to family for Christmas, would be relying on carers to pop in so if they can't visit the carers need to work

Excellent point!

I genuinely don't get why families feel they can't cope for one day by themselves

Its not one day though is it Its already been nine months for many. Many who have been complying all this time. And the thanks they get? It gets minimized like this.

The world is not neatly divided into compliant and non compliant. Everyone has their limits. Christmas would be an ask too far for many

THIS! Many people who have complied to the letter so far will feelthat Christmas is too much to ask. Maybe people want their Christmas. After all the more well off got their Cheltenham and their ski trips. Part of the reason the first lockdown was late.

These ministers will want to see their own families too, without ending up in another Barnard Castle shitstorm

Yep. Ive been saying the same on other threads. The press would be watching them closely. The only Zoom they would have to worry about if they extended this into Christmas would be a Zoom lens.

He will make a call. The guy who ruined Christmas versus the guy who had to turn ice rinks into morgues.

He will probably opt to give people their Christmas.

@MercyBooth

I genuinely don't get why families feel they can't cope for one day by themselves

Its not one day though is it Its already been nine months for many. Many who have been complying all this time. And the thanks they get? It gets minimized like this.

Exactly its been a very long 9 months for everyone. Young children have changed enormously in that time. Elderly have become frailer and lost confidence.

Many Elderly people, struggle with loneliness at the best of times. The clubs and events that are set up to combat the loneliness aren't allowed to run. Families are scared to visit incase they carry covid in. They probably aren't that fit to go for a lovely Christmas day walk in the park.

Stop and think for a moment about those elderly who don't have their own children. They'd ordinarily be welcome at a niece or nephews house for Christmas, or they'd go to an organised event.

Where you have 4 generations of family it becomes very difficult.

Let's take Camilla she really wants to spend Christmas with her DD and DGC that's 2 households. But her DH who has strained relations with one DS would like include his DS and DGC, but that's 3 households.
DH Charlie also has very elderly parents can't leave them to be reliant on carers so that's 4 households.

But your only allowed 3 households, who gets left out?

MN will be full of threads, I can't visit my DDad at Christmas because he's chosen my step sister over me.

Families are complicated, people are stressed, if they limit things to much it will result in long lasting damage to family relationships.

@Bikingbear what would your policy be for Christmas? Do you think there should be any limit on households or numbers altogether at the same time?

It would depend on the distance people lived but in your example above couldn’t you have elderly parents for Christmas lunch then take them home and have the children and grandchildren for Christmas tea/party on the day or even have one set over on Boxing Day? Does it have to be everyone together at the same time where everyone is in closer proximity?

@MercyBooth

I genuinely don't get why families feel they can't cope for one day by themselves

Its not one day though is it Its already been nine months for many. Many who have been complying all this time. And the thanks they get? It gets minimized like this.

I don’t get it either, it’s one day. We have so many ways of keeping in touch as well.

Not sure why people need thanking for complying with the rules/laws.

[quote GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]@Bikingbear what would your policy be for Christmas? Do you think there should be any limit on households or numbers altogether at the same time?

It would depend on the distance people lived but in your example above couldn’t you have elderly parents for Christmas lunch then take them home and have the children and grandchildren for Christmas tea/party on the day or even have one set over on Boxing Day? Does it have to be everyone together at the same time where everyone is in closer proximity?[/quote]
Grumbling its difficult, I don't actually know what I'd do in that situation. The GGPs are going to want to see the GGC too. What difference does it make if they are all in one house at the same time or visiting on Boxing Day.

I do think we need limits, definitely not big parties of 20 / 30 that you'd get crammed into a house on Christmas night or hogmanay.
I'm thinking 12 people and 4-6 households, Not only does it suit Boris and his brood, but it's a number most families could work with happily, inc Camilla

Its really easy to say just pop in or meet outside when you're close by and relatively fit but people aren't going to travel to sit in Granny's back garden for 15mins while she sits and shivers on her deckchair.

We do have to be mindful of Grannies MH too.

@Bikingbear I agree it’s difficult

What difference does it make if they are all in one house at the same time or visiting on Boxing Day.

Well in the scenario above it would mean that the elderly relatives had visited & had their lunch with a bit more space before the rest of the family cram in & no sitting in a cold garden for grandma.

In my grandmas later years( 90s) she used to like to come for lunch alternatively with our family or her other child’s family but she’d had enough excitement by teatime and wanted to go home by then anyway.

The medical approach to combatting the disease is about reducing contacts - spacing people’s visits out physically and over time helps stops the spread & the more we can manage this the more people are protected. I know it sucks!

Depending upon what progress is made with the reduction of the R rate in the next few weeks, I think it will be rule of 6 if lucky.

We were always told this Winter period was/is going to be hard getting through it.

With positive news of a vaccine in sight I really hope that people are sensible to give us more light through the tunnel in the New Year, otherwise all the hard work just gets undone for Christmas.

For some it’s easy just to stay in their own family unit, for others with elderly and frail relatives it’s harder, for those with family members and poor MH it’s hard. But for many it really is quite copeable to limit interaction for one Christmas. It was interesting listening to the scientist who has developed one of the vaccines talk to Andrew Marr this morning. He gave great hope for next year but pointed clearly to this Winter period being hard.

If it's copeable for family units to stay in their family units just for one year, then I agree, they really should. We don't know what next winter will be like.

But if by staying in your family unit means that others who are suffering with MH issues, are on their own, have genuine needs are able to safely interact with others, then it would be selfish not to keep to that family unit.

(That was a hugely awful paragraph, sorry!).

I know we haven't been suffering, so absolutely going to stick to our bubble as I'd rather do that and allow others to interact who genuinely need to.

I don’t think cases will drop at all over this lockdown light, not with schools open so they’ve fucked that. If ether allow mixing at Christmas we’ll be in an nhs collapsing situation come January. What a fuck up.

Lockdown light? Tell my hairdresser that. Its a family business that has been running for 40 years on the 8th December.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss Its nothing to do with thanks. Its to do with minimization and treated like they arent important You know like the way you speak about people on benefits on here. You rubbish them constantly but then expect them to do everything they can to protect you. You cant constantly champion individualism and then cry foul and whine when the day of reckoning comes!

In answer to the OP @BlowMeToBermuda

it would seem so
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8959845/Family-togethers-given-OK-THREE-households-able-mix-Christmas.html

[quote MercyBooth]In answer to the OP @BlowMeToBermuda

it would seem so
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8959845/Family-togethers-given-OK-THREE-households-able-mix-Christmas.html[/quote]
But will people accept the January lockdown that will be the result?

They need to be honest with people here with Boris looking beyond the man who saved Christmas headlines.

5 days basically gives people carte blanche to do what they want for a week, nothing to see here, and that's before the new year parties.

3rd lockdown here we come.

Quite frankly there are many people that will do just as they please no matter what legislation is put in place

I won't believe anything I read in the Mail.

But I do predict a lockdown similar to the first where schools etc are closed. Queue people complaining about lost income whilst mixing at Christmas and causing it. Fed up of lockdowns and people both causing them and moaning about them.

I will be staying in my bubble.