I am special/exempt/don’t have to follow the lockdown rules because......

[Watermelon999]

Just waiting for all of the above to start...

What reasons will be bandied about this time? And when will people realise that the more of us that do it, the quicker it will be over?

@HugeAckmansWife

how about there is a separate board for "CV medal winners only" and all of you sneery "what about obvious idiots" people can go and pat yourselves on the back there while those of us with rather more difficult and real concerns talk through how we can sensibly manage them, apply some critical thinking and be empathetic?

What an excellent idea. Nasty little threads like this could all be coralled in the one place.

The government has done an amazing job of turning us against each other and threads like this are complicit. If you want people to comply why would you be rude to them? Has anyone ever changed your mind by calling you an idiot? I think lockdown to this extent is incredibly damaging to society but what scares me more is the judging of other people. If you want to change people’s behaviour be realistic and tell people what the plan is. What are we trying to achieve? How will individual actions impact on this? What’s the end game? Share the evidence. In India they celebrate and thank the population for compliance.

@Watermelon999

“Why don’t you find yourself some empathy op and stop stirring up trouble?”

I have empathy for the genuinely vulnerable (mentally ill, disabled, terminally ill, recently bereaved etc etc)

I have zero empathy for those who feel they deserve the same special dispensation as those in the above categories for no other reason than they’re fed up. Or they don’t agree with the rules, or they don’t like the government...

I fully agree with your sentiments.

The number of people who "can't breathe" when wearing a mask. Yet everyone I know with a respiratory issue is managing it.

Likewise the number of people with "MH" issues so means they're excluded from wearing a mask. Yet look at their social media from 31st October 2019 and how many were wearing masks then!

There's so much hypocrisy and self centredness.

The question should be what can you do to be able to follow the guidance not why you can't follow the guidance.

We should have a more rigorous stance like other countries and ultimately having a no exceptions rule would be best for the country because as always the same minority take the piss and in effect negate the impact of those who are not.

Multiple holidays
Pubs and restaurants

How do you think these businesses will continue to break even if no one goes on holiday, or goes to the pub/ out to eat?

Someone's livelihood depends on their "selfishness".

I'm sure you will look forward to a life without holiday accommodation, plane travel and eating out. Cos that is the future when these businesses close. You cannot just magic up leisure infrastructure when you fancy it.

The idea has just occurred, so it may be daft and please shoot me down if it is, but would it not be possible to train auxiliary staff (non qualified and starting from zero) to perform a limited essential set of routines, without requiring qualification. Along the lines of "This is the procedure: it is done this way, do not think about improving it or making it more efficient: just do it this way, the same way perfectly every time". Like giving injections. Nurses and doctors need a wide range of knowledge but vaccinations don't. So we could train me to vaccinate people for flu or COVID, and leave nurses to do the thinking bit. I have been a parent and I'm reasonably intelligent. If the trainers pointed out trigger points needing further investigation, it's surely not rocket science to train a non-specialist to do vaccinations. If you consider that most junkies manage to knock the air out of the needle, most of the time, then it should only take a day of instruction to train a sensible person to administer flu jabs or to take swabs.

We need to demedicalise the routine procedures in the NHS and delegate them to trained, sensible volunteers.

@XingMing

The idea has just occurred, so it may be daft and please shoot me down if it is, but would it not be possible to train auxiliary staff (non qualified and starting from zero) to perform a limited essential set of routines, without requiring qualification. Along the lines of "This is the procedure: it is done this way, do not think about improving it or making it more efficient: just do it this way, the same way perfectly every time". Like giving injections. Nurses and doctors need a wide range of knowledge but vaccinations don't. So we could train me to vaccinate people for flu or COVID, and leave nurses to do the thinking bit. I have been a parent and I'm reasonably intelligent. If the trainers pointed out trigger points needing further investigation, it's surely not rocket science to train a non-specialist to do vaccinations. If you consider that most junkies manage to knock the air out of the needle, most of the time, then it should only take a day of instruction to train a sensible person to administer flu jabs or to take swabs.

We need to demedicalise the routine procedures in the NHS and delegate them to trained, sensible volunteers.

You're basically describing the role of the healthcare assistant. Already exists.

@Nettleskeins

Multiple holidays Pubs and restaurants

How do you think these businesses will continue to break even if no one goes on holiday, or goes to the pub/ out to eat?

Someone's livelihood depends on their "selfishness".

I'm sure you will look forward to a life without holiday accommodation, plane travel and eating out. Cos that is the future when these businesses close. You cannot just magic up leisure infrastructure when you fancy it.

Here's a good idea (one explained by the worldwide experts). We contain the virus. Radical, I know.

We should take a leaf out of the sensible books of African and Asia Pacific countries.

Over to Professor Sridhar (my bold):
On a panel with several CEOs yesterday and their message was clear -> it's the virus impacting consumer behaviour & their businesses, not just restrictions. Already clear that controlling the virus with a clear strategy is best route to economic recovery.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/01/suppress-covid-england-lockdown-east-asian-african

I work for a global company and we HAVE to wear a mask at ALL times (except when eating) on my site there are over 700 staff... No one argues with this...no one is exempt...everyone just gets on with it! Funny that.

The mess we're in now is because we didn't do lockdown properly first time round (which should've included restricted borders).

It's clear from many of these posts that too few have learned the lessons of the (very recent) past. It appears we're doomed already to a future third lockdown. And another, and another.

Shame so many don't want this over with.
It's clearly them who like lockdown. Otherwise they'd want to do one proper one - to contain the virus, nip it in the bud.

Three paths for governments: ‘simmer’ virus & be stuck in lockdown/release cycles, do nothing & let it rip or aim for elimination with strong test/trace/isolation, good guidance to public & border measures. Two of the above paths lead to large economic costs; one less so.

How do we restrict borders when we aren’t self sufficient food producers?

@MummyPop00

How do we restrict borders when we aren’t self sufficient food producers?

We do what New Zealand, with their tightly restricted borders, are doing. We import food.

Food imports count as essential travel.

How do NZ import? Container?

UK uses the tunnel & ro-ro ferries as well as containers. Are we comparing apples with apples?

Much of Asia (and Africa) have tightly restricted borders - but are managing to import essentials. If they can do it, we as a rich island (with the resources to police restrictions) can do it too.

@MummyPop00

How do NZ import? Container?

UK uses the tunnel & ro-ro ferries as well as containers. Are we comparing apples with apples?

Containers. They're driven to the departure port where the tractor unit/driver leave it at the dockside. It's put on the ship by the port's own tractor units. At the arrival port, the port's only tractor units take it off and park it on the dockside then a driver/tractor unit from that country comes to transport it to the final destination. Common/Most popular method in ports all over the World, even in the UK. Trouble with the UK is that it's so close to mainland Europe/Ireland that it's easier/cheaper/quicker sometimes for the driver/tractor unit to just drive it onboard, stay on board, and drive it off other end, and of course smaller vans etc are common for shorter sea journeys which can't be detached. The short crossings and Channel Tunnel really are our downfall when it comes to the border control/isolation issue as drivers coming with their goods is common in the UK whereas far less common in other countries.

@user1471588124

Because my minimum wage, stressful and essential job pays so little i have no choice but to live in a mouldy house share with strangers, so cant even bubble with my partner of 2 years. I cant legally see anyone i know apart from outside at 2m distance and as a young person i am terrified about the future and cant see a day were i will be able to rent, let alone buy my own place. The only thing that will get me and millions of others through winter is an occasional hug from someone i know and if that makes me selfish so be it.

I think its more selfish to expect people on minimum wage essential jobs, to sacrifice not only our health and our futures, but also the bare minimum social interaction because the system means we cant afford to live in anything other then cramped, unsafe housing and so cant even form support bubbles.

Maybe actually think about what some people, who are at very low risk of dying from covid are being asked to do. Its not about wanting other people to die, its about the fact that humans are social animals and need some social interaction from people they know, even if they are young and poor.

I empathise completely @user1471588124

Because the liklihood of my daughter committing suicide if she doesn't see her boyfriend far outweighs the risk of her infecting others with Covid, given that she doesn't leave the house due to her poor mental health.

I'll look after my family to the best of my ability and you look after yours.

I follow all other rules (wear my mask, wash my hands, social distance, not seeing my parents and grandparents etc) . I will not risk worsening my child's already severely poor mental health to blindly follow a blanket rule, especially when mh services have been closed.

Because I'm a teacher. So I can't stay home and keep safe. No space. V little face. I'd love to follow the 'rules'.

@Frequency
Please get your daughter some mental health support. It's very worrying that she's suicidal when she can't see her boyfriend. What happens if he breaks up with her? She needs help because that's a very unhealthy and dangerous place to be in.

@Frequency I’m a mental health nurse. Please get your Dd some help. If she’s suicidal go to A&E if you have to. We aren’t getting the referrals (I’m currently on maternity leave but been speaking to colleagues). You need to kick up a stink to get her help when she needs it.

I've questioned the same thing with the various mental health professionals we've engaged with over the years re her unhealthy dependance on her boyfriend. She's just been discharged from her latest one as she refuses to engage with over the phone counselling. Her anxiety prevents her from speaking on the phone. I've also grilled social workers and GPs on the same subject and my own counsellor and none of them can give me any clear answers as to how to deal with her dependance on her boyfriend/the health of the relationship. I do strongly encourage other friends and personal interests and hobbies but sadly, for the most part, I am fighting a loosing battle.

She is back to point blank refusing all help, and even when she was a child (she's now 18) she had to actively want the help and the second she refused to engage all services withdrew, even when I begged them to stay for the sake of my own sanity and my youngest childs.

Trust me when I say I've tried everything including attempting to section her (she wasn't ill enough as she was only talking about sucuide and not actively attempting it. She told the paramedic she had no immediate plans to end her life) and every time I get told unless she wants help all I can do is wait until she is ill enough to be sectioned.

Her boyfriend leaving her is my worst nightmare. I have no idea how I will cope other than to very, very closely supervise her.

We've been to CAHMS, MIND, Haven, private counselling, online counselling, hospital school and tried sertraline and citlaropram (the citlaropram she said made her numb so she stopped taking it. The sertraline she refused to take in case it made her feel numb). We've tried healthy eating, mindfulness and exercise. I am literally out of options because she won't engage in anything, although I am having a small amount of sucess with at home exercise DVDs which seem to have a positive influence on her mood.

If anyone has any ideas I haven't mentioned, I'm all ears, but unfortunately the answer will probably be either we've tried it and she hated it/quit or I've suggested it and she refuses.

I'm sorry. It must be very difficult for you.

Wrt the Covid restrictions, her severe mental health issues mean her vists to her boyfriend would count as him providing care to somebody vulnerable.

Longer-term, I hope she eventually agrees to engage with some support. You've done all you can by the sounds of it. All you can do is keep trying to encourage her to get help.

Is her boyfriend supportive? Would she listen to him if he encouraged her to get support?

Her boyfriend is very supportive but sadly has his own MH struggles to contend with. He does encourage her. He was the one who eventually managed to get her to try citralopram but she won't listen to him and when he pushes it he gets the same treatment we do. She retreats to under her duvet and stays there for days. Atm his focus is getting her back into education or employment. We get a few positive mummurs from her but when it comes to actually signing up to courses or writing CVs the answer is always no.

The at home exercise DVDs is a very positive start.