Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

The lack of any questioning from most people on this thread is extremely worrying but unsurprising given studies over decades of how compliant the general population is with authority regardless of whether Good or bad. I agree wholeheartedly OP.

Millions of innocent people...

Just get on with coping with things, do you not know how foolish it would be, to protest about this lock down now.

@bellinique they literally boarded people in their homes with drills and panels! Even the scientists who have demanded lockdown agree that it's too late to eradicate it. Cases will get back into China and it will start over again. You can't eradicate every case -its too late for that now. That is the scientific opinion. It's just management. Any lowering of numbers is absolutely artificial till things open again, borders included.

@SeverusSnape1
For as long as we need to get under control.
If we had followed the advice from sage and had a circuit breaker we would be in a far better position.

The longer we do nothing the worse it gets, I certainly wouldn't want to have an urgent non covid health problem before next summer at the earliest, would you?

We can't walk a tightrope of life versus economy, the two need to co-exist. The longer we wait to take action the longer we will need to be restricted, so why wait and make it worse?

and children have been off school for eight months.

And how long is that going to continue? how the heck is that good for the children or parents who can't afford childcare if they still work?
Not sure why you sound smug about it, it's hardly sustainable.

No, they literally didn't. I have a lot of first hand knowledge about how China handled this and it's mostly down to people complying with rules and understanding the need to put up with some short term pain for the good of the whole population.

They have no need to open up borders to infections now it's under control there. Their economy is growing again and every time new cases emerge they act quickly and effectively to eradicate it.

@Rockyroquero perhaps it is too late for the U.K. now because we've completely fucked this up from the beginning with our fatalistic attitude. There was another way though, as proven by multiple other countries.

Um the footage is out there @bellinique. Any idea why people there might "comply" more anyway ?

Marilla Could be literal too..

OP is correct, we have given the government carte blanche to take away our liberty, give away our money. There is no questioning of the how, what and why for anything they have decided on the toss of a coin.

It is wrong, fundamentally wrong. It has the taste of 1984. BUT, we have to change the way we live to save lives, and there is no question of that. The way it is being done/can it ever be undone is another matter.

Totally agree with you OP. I'm in America so lockdown isn't as severe as in the UK but already people are starting to refuse increased measures. The government can't on the one hand, state that I must stay home to keep people safe as if I get infected, the chance of me getting so sick and needing medical treatment would overwhelm the system, but on the other hand, state that I'm not particularly at risk and therefore I would not get a vaccine if/when one becomes available.
The sad fact is that illnesses occur and people die. We have become so incredulous and arrogant as a species that we feel as though we have to right to live to 80, 90 and beyond. We of course all hope that for ourselves and our relatives but sometimes that's not the case. It may be due to car accidents, cancer, hereditary ailment, Covid or multiple other issues, but the response to any of these is not to stop people driving, stop people smoking or eating carcinogenic foods or preventing people with hereditary conditions from having families, but from enabling people to live life to the fullest whilst they can.
I find it almost impossible to believe that the increase in cases is not in large, due to schools/universities going back. I'm not a proponent of these closing at all. I think they need to be open. But the logic in ignoring the biggest factor in increased rates and attempting to curtail the growth in cases by shutting almost all other businesses, economically crippling the country, is nonsensical at best.
I truly hope people and business start to refuse these draconian measures, as is starting to happen in America.

We are fighting - for our freedom to live! You might not personally see any great risk of dying but what about the elderly, vulnerable, front line staff etc? Would you happily see your family and friends turned away from hospital for Covid or anything else?

@Rockyroquero I imagine people comply there more because of the awful oppressive regime. I'm not advocating that type of governing, I'm just saying that lockdowns can and have worked. And it isn't just China. There are several other countries, particularly in East and South East Asia, where they have managed to pretty much eradicate the virus. It is possible and could have been for the U.K. I don't think it's helpful for people to assume that this was all inevitable and there's nothing we can do to change it - other countries have proven that isn't the case and our actions will have an impact.

If by fighting it you mean you’re going to work on a vaccine to shorten this lockdown then yes, please fight.

Otherwise, it’s a virus. It’s a question of thinking of the vulnerable and health service workers and giving them the space they need to save lives.

Save your fight until next year once this is somewhat under control let them have it.
It is a horrible situation causing devastation across all health sectors businesses families.
Flex your muscles keep your fight there's big brexit battle coming up too.

Your civil liberties are going to be of limited assistance if you're dead.

I live in Singapore. We endured a tough lockdown back in April - June and now have zero, maybe one/two community cases each day. There have been very few deaths. The hospital system has not been overwhelmed.

Melbourne in Australia has similarly just come out the other side of lockdown and their cases are now very low.

If there is to be any hope of the NHS not being totally overwhelmed, I fail to see what other options are open to the UK at this point.

I've no doubt there will be protests over the coming weeks.

Ooh, OP, you know how much MN likes a diagram - can you do one of your fight back a Covid Girl character/outfit?!

This whole thing is a pile of absolute shit, but I still can’t wrap my head around those bleating on about our liberties etc. Just can’t comprehend that any Government here would seriously have a long term strategy for stripping us of our rights etc on a permanent basis.

I’m trying to put aside the political arguing and looking at it from the point of view of the current NHS (set aside for now how for now how things could/should have been with regards to how it’s underfunded etc etc etc). Purely looking at it as to how it is NOW.

On that basis alone, this lockdown will hopefully buy them some more time heading into winter. Will it solve everything? No, it bloody well won’t. Will it help ease the pressure on them slightly? I bloody well hope so.

I have a huge amount of sympathy for all of us affected by the knock-on effects of how this has all turned to crap over this year. And respect and gratitude to those on the frontline in the NHS, plus everyone else who has been working to ensure our lives seem as “normal” as possible - retail, teachers, deliveries, postmen, refuse collection etc etc etc. Thank you.

But I still can’t wrap my head around those that think this a slow descent into these restrictions being a descent into normal life. Have seen a few comments on other threads of people saying along the lines of ‘wish we’d dealt with things the.way xyz country did” (ie China). All I know is, il’d rather live out my (maybe Covid or other conditions) shorter life than live the other way permanently.

And, as much as it’s not great to think about, if one Christmas out of however many in our lifetimes, ends up being a bit “different” then I’ll take that. Eid was affected hugely, at incredibly short notice. Christmas doesn’t hold flipping Top Trumps as to what strategy should be.

Ugh -definitely not loving 2020.

BUT, we have to change the way we live to save lives, and there is no question of that

How convenient. Biological warfare.

It's no good OP, protesting won't help. The virus couldn't care less what you think. It's pretty clear Boris didn't want lockdown, no-one does. He's tried to ignore the scientists but it hasn't worked. No-one wants a situation where hospitals are overwhelmed, and it could happen. Or the army on the streets enforcing curfews.

It's shit, we all know that but for once, we can't have our own way. The only way to deal with this is to reduce contact to the bare minimum and if that means a lockdown then I'll do it because I have family I want to keep safe, a son I want to see grow up.

So I'll plan Xmas from home, I'll run by myself for exercise, I'll do zoom classes and cook more and do what I can to support my family & neighbours and friends. I'm a single mum, I've lost my job and have as many problems as anyone else but stomping around like an upset teenager won't solve the problems. I get that you're scared. I'm scared too. Sorry.

If, when this is over, the govt tries to withhold any freedoms, I'll happily come and block Whitehall with you x

The only fighting worth doing is fighting for this wretched govt to use this month to dramatically improve the shambolic test, trace and isolate system which should never have been given to private companies to run when our NHS and public health teams across the country had the expertise.

I think OP intends to emulate the Peoples' Front of Judea from the Life of Brian

I think John Cleese would love to help.

@bellinique are you seriously saying you believe the numbers coming out of China? I’ve lived in China. If you think Boris lies and has his own agenda he’s nothing in comparison to the Chinese government.