Damning report about Sweden

[CovidHalloween]

I’ve read a lot of hot air about Sweden’s “amazing” approach to the virus on here before.
The Times has just released a report on how badly Sweden has managed the virus and how it has one of the highest deaths per capita.

time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

From other corona viruses, I mean.

We’ll see how Czech Republic goes but they probably won’t be hooking very sick elders up to ventilators and accidentally making them worse like Lombardy did.

They’re not in a good way, I don’t know if you noticed.

They’re not in a good way, I don’t know if you noticed.

I did notice. I suspect their public health officials and doctors have done a fair bit of reading about the virus since March as well. We know which steroids are helpful and there are other treatments in active testing.

I’m not saying lockdown to delay a strong wave is perfect. And I already said the best practice seems to be a strategic lockdown followed by isolation and track and trace.

What Britain is doing now, in my opinion, is
pointless.

However there may be pre existing immunity to corona viruses at play.

So you’re saying a diverse group of well above a billion people from Mongolia to the Singapore, ranging from frozen tundra to the tropics, with different animal species and diets and lifestyles, have some sort of shared immunity to a virus that appeared in Central China?

Sorry that does sound racially tinged at best, shall we say. And ignorant of geography and genetics.

followed by isolation and track and trace.

Assuming there is the expertise, cultural toleration, access to sensitive data to support this.

I’d argue that’s not true of most of Western Europe. The Asian countries where track and trace has worked really well have a radically different approach to data privacy than we do.

Sorry that does sound racially tinged at best, shall we say. And ignorant of geography and genetics.

Does it?

To say that one geographical area may have been exposed to different corona viruses than another?

Seriously?

@TheKeatingFive

Sorry that does sound racially tinged at best, shall we say. And ignorant of geography and genetics.

Does it?

To say that one geographical area may have been exposed to different corona viruses than another?

Seriously?

Yes. The distance from Beijing to Singapore is 5000km.

About the same distance from London to Cameroon.

About the same distance from London to Cameroon.

Which may have been exposed to a different set of corona viruses also.

I’m not sure why it’s so controversial to say that CV may play out across the world in a topical fashion. We don’t have data on what any country has been exposed to. To say that there might be some commonality across some Asian countries is hardly an extraordinary idea.

I do strongly push back against the idea that Asians have some sort of genetic protection because it’s a borderline racist position

I don’t see why. Are we not to say that those in the BAME population are more at risk because it is racist.

I do believe there very well could be something maybe in blood types/genetics.
I only know two people who have died from Covid and they were both from the same family which I think had more deaths in extended family members yet others around them had the virus and whilst unwell they all recovered.

@TheKeatingFive

About the same distance from London to Cameroon.

Which may have been exposed to a different set of corona viruses also.

I’m not sure why it’s so controversial to say that CV may play out across the world in a topical fashion. We don’t have data on what any country has been exposed to. To say that there might be some commonality across some Asian countries is hardly an extraordinary idea.

My point is that a northern Chinese person and a Singaporean Malay are NOT exposed to the same viruses because they are different ethnicities living very far away from each other.

Singapore has successfully managed COVID as has China (after massively screwing up of course).

It is ignorant at best and racist at worst to say “Asians” have a genetic advantage. The virus came from central China. That doesn’t give Japanese or Vietnamese any advantage.

Europe has not done well and it’s nothing to do with genetics.

It is ignorant at best and racist at worst to say “Asians” have a genetic advantage

I never said that.

I said there may be some commonalities in the CVs some Asian countries have already been exposed to. Hardly controversial.

Europe has not done well and it’s nothing to do with genetics.

Geographical exposure/lack of exposure to other CVs may have played a role in immunity levels. There’s very little we know for certain right now, it’ll take years for this to be unravelled.

*I don’t see why. Are we not to say that those in the BAME population are more at risk because it is racist.

It’s actually the case that BAME people in Northern regions seem to be doing badly due to Vitamin D deficiency. African countries are doing better on COVID actually than many developed regions.

If you think that human races are so divergent that an Asian person has an advantage and a black person has a disadvantage and this is due to genetic differences, you’re very wrong.

This virus is novel to the HUMAN race. No matter if you look Asian or black or white.

I said there may be some commonalities in the CVs some Asian countries have already been exposed to. Hardly controversial.

It’s not controversial.

It’s WRONG.

An anthropologist would sort you out quite quickly. Asia is huge. You are wrong. Moving on now.

Singapore has successfully managed COVID as has China (after massively screwing up of course).

With very different attitudes to citizen rights and citizen data compared to Western Europe.

As I keep saying, so many factors to consider and weigh up. The cultural context is very significant.

It’s WRONG.

Ok I give up. You’re like a child. Best of luck with life and all.

But we aren’t all the same. We have different blood types. Type B is more prevalent in southern Asian countries.

Type A is more susceptible to colds (type a who gets a cold if someone sneezes 3 streets away)

I think Type O get more stomach upsets

We are not all the same

I cant believe people still cant see the point of lockdowns. The rates of deaths are largely (italy excepted) WITH treatment. For non care home residents anyway. Maybe sweden didn need to lock down to.avoid their health system being overwhelmed. With an overwhelmed nhs we would jave more than the 20 or so children that have died (and more dying of non covid reason too.
If you decide to go for not surpressing it here you would likely have to set hospital.admissions at maybe under 60.

@Keepdistance

This is a straw man argument. Not many people that I can see are actually advocating letting COVID rip.

It is not a choice between lockdown or letting it rip.

Personally I would reintroduce shielding on a funded basis alongside the rule of six, face masks and social distancing.

I would bot support another lockdown that would devastate the economy, education and society.

Latest Swedish data.

Remember they still had some restrictions, aiming to achieve a decent level of infection, without overwhelming heath services.

Remember back in April when idiots were screaming for tighter lockdown, or saying "we locked down too late"? I do.

Also, any of the "immunity only lasts two months" gang want to explain why Sweden has had no second wave?

I think antibodies only last a couple of months but I think whilst you can get Covid for a second time it isn’t as easy to catch it a second time. Maybe something to do with T Cell immunity.

A bit like chicken pox. You can’t really get it again but some people do get infected again and instead of it being shingles it just is Covid again.
IYSWIM

www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19s-disparate-impacts-are-not-a-story-about-race/

“Today, no one suspects that Italy was terrorized by COVID-19 because Italian genes incline the population to respiratory illness. Researchers understand that low COVID-19 mortality rates in New Zealand are not explained by beneficial polymorphisms.

We reach for fantasies of physiologic dissent only when it supports our existing biases. We see how ideas of danger and biologic difference map easily and automatically onto Asia, while Europe—buffered by its perceived whiteness, normalcy, and health—does not seem like a site of sickness or genetic variation.”

I’m still actually quite shocked that people can’t understand that a Southeast Asian person would have no immunity to a virus from a bat in central China.

It would be the same as thinking a Spaniard has immunity to Ebola because it’s a similar distance between Spain and West Africa.

Please please think critically and carefully. “Racial science” was debunked decades ago. The way people look to you is not an indicator of their overall genetic similarity.

Sweden's approach has worked to a degree . . . for Sweden. Different culture, small population, large country, less disobedience.

Yes, I can’t imagine the Swedish version of Mumsnet has multiple threads saying “sod the rules, I’m having my usual 11 people round for Christmas dinner”.

I’m still actually quite shocked that people can’t understand that a Southeast Asian person would have no immunity to a virus from a bat in central China

But they might have a different reaction to it.

I was just pointing out that the prominence of those with type B blood group is around South Asia which might give them some protection from the virus. Obviously there are people all over the world with B blood group maybe they too are able to fight off this disease better than say a Type A blood group

Given they have found a link that different blood groups have different reactions to stomach upsets and colds and other stuff then I don’t think it is far fetched to think the reaction from 2 different people with 2 different blood types to this virus might be different.
Type A, which I am, means you are more susceptible to colds yet don’t get stomach upsets.
Which is completely true for me.
Whilst another blood group (cannot remember which) doesn’t pick up coughs and colds but is susceptible to stomach upsets

I wonder when this is over that they don’t find a link either by blood type or some form of genetic link.

I see lots of families who have this virus go through the family and whilst ill in various degrees they all recover whilst another family it seems to be fatal to more than one family member.

If everyone was the same then everyone would have the same outcome from this disease.

They’ve actually found that Type O blood group is most resistant to COVID.

hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-blood-type

The group MOST likely to test positive are B/AB Rhesus positive. 99% of Chinese are Rh positive. So there goes the theory that Chinese (or any other Asians) have a genetic advantage against Covid.

Like I said, just because Europeans think all Asians look alike doesn’t mean they have genetic similarities to the point of a massive region of billions has done better against Covid as a result of their genes. It’s racist to even suggest it and I stand by it.

Or hey maybe Swedes are genetically inferior to Finns because their Covid rates are so much higher? Probably right?