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Neil Ferguson saying schools may close

312 replies

Orangeblossom7777 · 24/10/2020 18:15

On the BBC - older ones he says. Will they listen to him though now he got kicked off Sage? I thought the plan for for part time in secondary not closing if cases rose very high? Hoping this doesn't happen DC mid GCSEs and already missed loads.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558

OP posts:
HipTightOnions · 25/10/2020 11:41

I find it so depressing how many people think the education of teenagers is an optional extra.

Which people? Where?

MadameBlobby · 25/10/2020 11:41

Also @IceCreamAndCandyfloss I work full time now but even when I worked part time I paid a lot of tax. Even part timers can have well paying jobs that contribute a lot of the economy. Bit offensive to assume part time working parents are dossing around paying hardly any tax. Not that it’s relevant anyway, they still need the money they earn.

MadameBlobby · 25/10/2020 11:42

@HipTightOnions

I find it so depressing how many people think the education of teenagers is an optional extra.

Which people? Where?

The people who think it’s ok for them to be educated at home while younger kids get to go to school.
HelloMissus · 25/10/2020 11:43

The people who think it’s okay for teens to be at home alone during the working week.

MadameBlobby · 25/10/2020 11:44

When the blended learning plans were sent to us before summer prior to the u turn our letter from our high school set out the arrangements and said “we know this is not ideal”. So there from the horses mouth, that part time school is an inferior arrangement.

toxtethOgradyUSA · 25/10/2020 11:45

@MadameBlobby

Also *@IceCreamAndCandyfloss* I work full time now but even when I worked part time I paid a lot of tax. Even part timers can have well paying jobs that contribute a lot of the economy. Bit offensive to assume part time working parents are dossing around paying hardly any tax. Not that it’s relevant anyway, they still need the money they earn.
I don't think *@IceCreamAndCandyfloss* has particularly high regard for working mums and their earning potential.
MadameBlobby · 25/10/2020 11:45

@HelloMissus

The people who think it’s okay for teens to be at home alone during the working week.
And not receiving the education to which they are entitled.
WhenSheWasBad · 25/10/2020 11:47

The people who think it’s ok for them to be educated at home while younger kids get to go to school

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s ok. Just trying to prioritise which years could work from home if there aren’t enough well teachers to fully open a school.

TheSeedsOfADream · 25/10/2020 11:47

We've just been told our high schools must go to 75% online for the final three year groups as of tomorrow. (Italy)
Fuxache.

Slightlybrwnbanana · 25/10/2020 11:48

@Sonnenscheins

Yes as long as they are not actually dead we can keep bodies in the classroom. Just wheel their bed into the classroom, probably room for an oxygen tank too.

Are there statistics that show how many teachers or pupils have become seriously ill with COVID?

Sonnenscheins The response was to a poster who thought if school staff weren't actually dying we can keep schools open. If I am self isolating I will provide work for classes. If I am off with Covid I will be focused on surviving it/recovering from it, and will not be fit to work. My exam classes aren't going to do well in that situation, and would be better off with their teacher fit and able to teach them, whether remotely or in school. I never understand why many get so angry with teachers on here (other than the few who are just shit-stirrers) and don't get angry with the government who send is all back in to schools that aren't Covid secure, where masks aren't worn, screens aren't provided, and no attempt is made to keep children distanced. You're annoyed with the wrong people.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 25/10/2020 11:50

I don't think @IceCreamAndCandyfloss has particularly high regard for working mums and their earning potential

I have plenty given I am one but I don’t believe for one moment that working parents alone are funding schools and nurses as it was quoted whatsoever. If that were the case the other 93% off adults may as well not work.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2020 11:52

@noblegiraffe

I was just talking about this on another thread. Heads and teachers cannot be honest about whether they think the situation is safe or not because they have to manage the anxieties of their staff, parents and children.

They don't have the power to change anything, so what will telling them the measures are inadequate achieve?

Then they come on MN and post what they really think and they're lambasted by posters saying 'all the teachers I know talk about how happy they are to be back in the classroom' not realising that maybe it's those same teachers that are posting.

A head of a friends school, which has had no cases or closures, has proudly shared with parents the % of schools in the area which have had closures as per council info disclosed to heads. Some schools have had complete closures.

I do wonder what other heads in the same area who have had closures have told their parents. I'm not sure that they would be taking quite the same line.

Its also telling what the head hasn't said to parents. The staff at this school have been struggling all the same to a degree unheard of previously. There's no outside cover available so they've had to juggle the situation as best they can. They are all on their knees. There no proper breaks and the staff have to cover breaks in a way which isn't normal. Stress levels are through the roof.

They are fortunate to be in a position where some of their TAs have teacher level qualifications and have been able to step into the void when teachers have had child care issues or been isolating pending a test. This is part of the benefit of the school being in a particular affluent area and having the means to have TAs who are above average (even if they aren't paid to that grade). This wouldn't be the case in other areas of the same council.

So even the fact the school has managed to remain open is something of a reflection of inequality. Other schools with very similar problems would have been forced to close.

Even then the response by some parents to certain things has been decidedly shitty. The gap between what parents know and what their expectations are and the reality of the pressures the schools are under is pretty vast.

I would imagine that since cases in deprived areas of the NW are far higher and they have less resources to cope with a problem that if the data for school closures by school catchment are ward deprivation were available you would see some pretty stark patterns emerging.

And thats before we start talking about council level closures or even regional ones.

My point is however closures occur they are massively compounded by deprivation. The conversations about how planned closures v localised closure affect the most deprived and vulnerable more rather miss the point.

Sonnenscheins · 25/10/2020 11:57

How would you feel if your child was onto their third block of isolation in Liverpool, you were a single parent, and you were now about to lose your job?

I'd feel terrible. But I'd feel even more terrible if schools were shut full time and I'd also feel more terrible if I lost my job in the hospitality industry due to lockdown.

If the Government reduce the isolation period to 7 days that would help with missing school.

Angelinasbicycle · 25/10/2020 12:13

*Absolutely, no one wants schools to close. But if teachers get sick, the schools will close to some year groups.

Yes, indeed. For a short period of time the affected schools will have to close, 14 days max. You confirm my point, no national school closures needed.

We can plan for this or we can simply chant “schools must stay open”

It's not one or the other, of course schools must, and do plan for brief periods of enforced closure due to temporary high levels of Covid infections among staff or students with adequate online learning. Other than that they will remain open for learning.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2020 12:14

If the Government reduce the isolation period to 7 days that would help with missing school.

Only if the virus isnt still infectious after 7 days.

If it is, then you might find this action has a rather counter productive effect.

notevenat20 · 25/10/2020 12:17

(2) some children physically in school regularly but not full time

What happens to the parent, typically a woman,who then loses her job?

noblegiraffe · 25/10/2020 12:33

Isn’t it the job of the government to protect jobs? What did your MP say when you raised this issue with them?

murkoff · 25/10/2020 13:36

Interestingly re the point of deprivation, I am in the NW. I get a breakdown from the council of the number of cases in each town every week.

There are some extremely deprived pockets with hardly any cases and then some fairly wealthy ones - not Chelsea or Knightsbridge of course but still fairly well to do - with high ones. It’s easy to glance at the map and make assumptions but when you look closer those assumptions aren’t quite right either.

Coldwinds · 25/10/2020 13:57

@notevenat20

(2) some children physically in school regularly but not full time

What happens to the parent, typically a woman,who then loses her job?

I don’t think most people on these threads give a shit about that to be honest.

Were supposed to sacrifice our kids education and our incomes and home security for the very tiny % who should be isolating anyway.

The reason why some teachers are vehemently protesting about schools being open is that they’d get paid anyway. Not a luxury every one else has. I honestly believe there would be a lot of back peddling of the Gov said ok let’s close schools but it would be unpaid time off.

WhenSheWasBad · 25/10/2020 14:12

coldwinds

I don’t think most people on these threads give a shit about that to be honest

I’m a teacher and I give a shit. I use my kids primary school as childcare, wouldn’t be able to work without them in schools.

A permanent move to online schooling is in no ones best interest. But last week the school I work in had numerous kids test positive and a handful of staff.
I’m scared I’m going to go back in November, catch Covid and pass it onto my clinically vulnerable husband.

It’s not that I don’t give a shit, I’m just scared that I’ll be the next member of staff coming down with Covid.

Barbie222 · 25/10/2020 14:14

The reason why some teachers are vehemently protesting about schools being open is that they’d get paid anyway. Not a luxury every one else has. I honestly believe there would be a lot of back peddling of the Gov said ok let’s close schools but it would be unpaid time off.

Er, if I have to isolate because of a family contact, it's already unpaid time off.

If I'm going to teach remotely, I'm getting paid. It takes a lot longer to do. Or would you rather we just close schools down as a sector, and not offer any form of education to our children?

Redlocks28 · 25/10/2020 14:18

I honestly believe there would be a lot of back peddling of the Gov said ok let’s close schools but it would be unpaid time off.

Then there would be no work set and no Key Worker provision-I can’t see that happening.

Nellodee · 25/10/2020 14:20

Bollocks, that's why we're protesting. We're protesting because we actually want some fucking kids to teach!

SEVEN children, that's how many students I taught on my last day. Seven. And cases are rising , so give it a couple of week after we return and I'll be lucky to have that.

Coldwinds · 25/10/2020 14:21

@Barbie222

The reason why some teachers are vehemently protesting about schools being open is that they’d get paid anyway. Not a luxury every one else has. I honestly believe there would be a lot of back peddling of the Gov said ok let’s close schools but it would be unpaid time off.

Er, if I have to isolate because of a family contact, it's already unpaid time off.

If I'm going to teach remotely, I'm getting paid. It takes a lot longer to do. Or would you rather we just close schools down as a sector, and not offer any form of education to our children?

Maybe if schools closed down the government should take control of the learning and have set on line learning across the board that children could log in to. For the many many children that don’t have access to online learning work packs are sent out. Many schools didn’t offer any online learning last time this would be fairer

Then the teachers could be furloughed and not have the stress on online teaching whilst looking after their own families.

Barbie222 · 25/10/2020 14:24

Maybe if schools closed down the government should take control of the learning and have set on line learning across the board that children could log in to.

There are already lots of comprehensive online learning packages available? What you're describing has been done. Parents didn't use it widely, as far as I know, because it involved an element of long term planning and suiting to the individual child, which is the hard bit that teachers are trained to do. I reckon that would lead to much worse outcomes for children. Although furlough sounds good too

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