Neil Ferguson saying schools may close

[Orangeblossom7777]

On the BBC - older ones he says. Will they listen to him though now he got kicked off Sage? I thought the plan for for part time in secondary not closing if cases rose very high? Hoping this doesn't happen DC mid GCSEs and already missed loads.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558

@noblegiraffe

I was just talking about this on another thread. Heads and teachers cannot be honest about whether they think the situation is safe or not because they have to manage the anxieties of their staff, parents and children.

They don't have the power to change anything, so what will telling them the measures are inadequate achieve?

Then they come on MN and post what they really think and they're lambasted by posters saying 'all the teachers I know talk about how happy they are to be back in the classroom' not realising that maybe it's those same teachers that are posting.

Also, heads are having to enforce rules about school attendance even to families with ECV members. Hard to do that while being anything less than positive about how things are going, even if you have reservations.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Unfortunately it won’t be only him who will die on that hill. By keeping schools open as he is, with no protective measures thus allowing the community spread, it will be 10s of 1000s of people Boris will be sentencing to death

He won’t back down as too much pressure was put on by parent groups who wanted their children back in school regardless of the staff and vulnerable families and children. Even now many still want them open despite of case numbers and communities on lock down.

If the schools closed and all the working families gave up their jobs as they couldn’t WFH or take indefinite leave who would pay the teachers wages? Who would pay the nurses wages?

The average age of Covid death is 82. Most teachers have retired by then I’d imagine.

Yes there is a serious virus here and it can be potentially deadly to a very very small minority. Some where around 0-2 % so we have to have some perspective on this.

Schools need to stay open to keep society functioning it’s vital to our economy.

Of course the schools must stay open is easy to say, and it’s what we would all like, of course.

But it ignores this:

uncontrolled closures due to isolation and sickness, which is what's happening now in areas with high infection rate

Chanting “schools must stay open” won’t make it happen.

Actually, schools need to stay open for the 7% of children who would have no childcare during the school day (this is the official statistic). Add to that the vulnerable children who need to be in school and schools could easily accommodate those with excellent social distancing in place.

So then schools closing to all other children actually wouldn’t affect the economy.

Chanting “schools must stay open” won’t make it happen

Absolutely, no one wants schools to close. But if teachers get sick, the schools will close to some year groups.

We can plan for this or we can simply chant “schools must stay open”

If the schools closed and all the working families gave up their jobs as they couldn’t WFH or take indefinite leave who would pay the teachers wages? Who would pay the nurses wages

It’s been said there are about 8m primary school parents, not all of them will have both adults working full time. Many will be part time and barely paying any tax and I’d imagine a good percentage would be claiming state assistance as well.

Secondary age children, in the main, are old enough to stay home by themselves.

I don’t buy that all parents pay teachers or nurse wages, some will but many take out far more than they put in.

starlight only 7% of school aged children have working parents? Really where’s that statistic from?

Plus at that age they should be able to use remote or blended learning far better as there is already a lot of home study for home work etc so space, equipment etc already in place for most.

Unfortunately not all teens have the space and resources for home learning. With exams next summer, it would be a very unfair and unlevel playing field.

So I feel it would be much fairer to keep years 10-13 in schools.

We say it’s down to wonderful progress and the safety measures in our school...it’s actually due to staff shortages.

That sounds very unpleasant and I'm sorry that you are in a situation where you are being forced to lie to your community on behalf of you school leadership. Nobody should be forced to lie by their employer, least of all teachers. Can you contact your union, they may be able to support you?

@HelloMissus

starlight only 7% of school aged children have working parents? Really where’s that statistic from?

You know that is not what the pp said, you can't turn a statistic around like that! It will include parents who both work but have gps who are retired and care for the children, families with one working and one at home, families with both working but different shifts (I know one where the dw works nights and the dh days) etc.

The average age of Covid death is 82. Most teachers have retired by then I’d imagine.
Yes as long as they are not actually dead we can keep bodies in the classroom. Just wheel their bed into the classroom, probably room for an oxygen tank too.

slightly I’m still shocked that it’s 7%.
Most working parents I know use school as childcare (topped up with paid help or GPS etc). I’m shocked that 93% have a parent available during all school hours.

Yes as long as they are not actually dead we can keep bodies in the classroom. Just wheel their bed into the classroom, probably room for an oxygen tank too.

Are there statistics that show how many teachers or pupils have become seriously ill with COVID?

I'm from Scotland so I don't understand what the years mean, but I would agree that thinking teens can learn online as well as they can in schools is wrong. I'm worried as DS is in the first year or his Nat 5s so probably wouldn't be deemed to be in a critical year - but if he doesn't get the foundation now then when will he get it ?

However I also believe- much as I would hate it - that we cannot take school closures out of the equation entirely. If the hospital numbers go up to such an extent that NHS is overwhelmed then everything needs to be looked at. At least now though schools will be amongst the last to be closed.

I don't know why the press are still quoting Ferguson though - well I do it's because it stokes up a bit of controversy- plenty of more reliable sources who weren't caught meeting up with their mistress during strict lockdown.

@HelloMissus

slightly I’m still shocked that it’s 7%. Most working parents I know use school as childcare (topped up with paid help or GPS etc). I’m shocked that 93% have a parent available during all school hours.

Yes, I know but I think sometimes it's that we are in our own little socioeconomic bubbles and only see other parents like us. Among the classes I teach it's broadly in line with what I see, although I do teach lower primary. Not sure whether secondary are counted as needing childcare or not for those stats.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

If the schools closed and all the working families gave up their jobs as they couldn’t WFH or take indefinite leave who would pay the teachers wages? Who would pay the nurses wages

It’s been said there are about 8m primary school parents, not all of them will have both adults working full time. Many will be part time and barely paying any tax and I’d imagine a good percentage would be claiming state assistance as well.

Secondary age children, in the main, are old enough to stay home by themselves.

I don’t buy that all parents pay teachers or nurse wages, some will but many take out far more than they put in.

Oh get real. I take it you would not be impacted if schools shut IceCreamAndCandyFloss ? Yeh, thought not. This is what gets me with the all in this together bullshit. People like you are happy to see working mums have to give up jobs and suffer serious financial hardship provided it doesn't affect YOU.

@HelloMissus

slightly I’m still shocked that it’s 7%. Most working parents I know use school as childcare (topped up with paid help or GPS etc). I’m shocked that 93% have a parent available during all school hours.

7 per cent is still very significant in terms of numbers. And I would be dubious about the accuracy of that figure in any case.

I think this thread shows exactly why schools need to remain open.

@Sonnenscheins

Yes as long as they are not actually dead we can keep bodies in the classroom. Just wheel their bed into the classroom, probably room for an oxygen tank too.

Are there statistics that show how many teachers or pupils have become seriously ill with COVID?

Yes, 60 educational staff including 23 teachers died of covid between 9 March and 20 April. None over retirement age. www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-revealed-least-26-teachers-have-died-covid-19?amp

barbie to be fair I’m way past that stage - I was more thinking of colleagues and employees still with DC at school.

I guess it makes more sense at primary age.
Though we’re surely not saying it’s okay for secondary kids to be home alone?

I’ve never seen a source for that 7% figure. It’s just flung around on here.

Even if it is true, forcing 7% of the population to stop contributing economically and take instead is economic dumbarsery of the highest order and everyone running the country knows that.

The impact of all of this on public sector funds is going to be very significant down the line anyway. Advocating making it worse is beyond stupid.

@Sonnenscheins

I think this thread shows exactly why schools need to remain open.

They're not though, are they? 412,000 kids at home last week.

There needs to be a discussion around how this can be better managed.

Plus at that age they should be able to use remote or blended learning far better as there is already a lot of home study for home work etc so space, equipment etc already in place for most.

Not all subjects are suitable for remote learning.

I find it so depressing how many people think the education of teenagers is an optional extra. Probably the same people who will be the first to moan when there are no doctors or nurses coming through the system to treat them for Covid or anything else in the years to come.

I would be OK with the part time school and so would my kids. But closing completely for them just because they don’t need childcare is just not fair. MNers are forever telling us schools aren’t childcare. Could it be that just isn’t the case?

@Sonnenscheins

I think this thread shows exactly why schools need to remain open.

The problem is, lots of schools aren't remaining open, and the attitudes here aren't helping. How would you feel if your child was onto their third block of isolation in Liverpool, you were a single parent, and you were now about to lose your job? Would it have been better to have started school part time, reduced your hours temporarily, pulled your horns in and kept your job and your kids at school?

A lot of people think so, and you don't get to tell them that they are wrong because you're in a less affected area.