Ways to make schools safer without closing them

[noblegiraffe]

Because I am so bored of the misrepresentation and lies going on on this site by people who shout down anyone who raises concerns about the current situation in schools as 'wanting schools to close indefinitely'. The people lacking in imagination who seem to insist that either things carry on as they are (with hundreds of thousands of kids not in school due to the spread in infection), or that schools close and there's nothing in between that can possibly be done to make things safer.

So here's my list, mostly copied from another thread:

We could start with an effective test and trace system, which we were told was essential for the safe re-opening of schools, but we opened without.

We could move onto making sure that all classrooms have windows. And then that those windows open. A national WEAR A VEST campaign to stop parents and kid complaining that it's cold. Germany have just invested a large amount of money in improving ventilation in schools, the UK should follow them.

Masks. Why do the government keep insisting they're not needed in corridors (from the comfort of a socially distanced parliament) and that it's impossible to use them in classrooms when the rest of the world seem to manage? What lessons can we learn from the international experience?

Marquees/covers on the playgrounds so that kids aren't inside for wet break. I know that wet break caused a whole year group to be sent home in a local school as it was uncontrolled indoor close contact.

For it to be mandatory (not simply 'where possible') that classrooms are arranged so that teachers are 2m from the kids when teaching. If smaller class sizes are needed to facilitate this, then solutions must be found even if the government needs to pay money for bigger spaces.

Parents to be supported/sanctioned to avoid kids being sent into school with symptoms or when they're supposed to be isolating.

The government to update its list of symptoms for children requiring a test to include the main ones that children experience, instead of the adult symptoms which they mainly don't.

Regular testing in schools, particularly when there are outbreaks, to enable more effective isolation.

Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)

Any other suggestions?

@baller20 - hopefully it makes a difference! Whether it makes enough difference to help get R below 1 is another question. Society appears to be somewhat flaky on what it is willing to shut down or do less of in order to enable other things to keep going.

@baller20

Well, it’s partly luck that they are able to do what they have done...

So the luck they used to implement certain measures will that have any impact?

Yes, but as community infection rises cases will make their way into your school.

So will the measures my school has implemented have an impact or is it still just luck?

They won’t stop covid getting into your school, that really will be luck, made more lucky by parental compliance.

What the measures will do is reduce the risk of spread once COVID is in the school. If bubbles really are separate (no siblings, no shared transport, no shared teachers, no cross bubble socialising) and the bubble affected is sent home, then the chances of the infected person having infected a different bubble are low.

Extra ventilation, hand washing, good hygiene, will reduce the chances of it spreading to another person within the bubble. However the lack of masks and lack of social distancing still means there’s a reasonable risk.

So will the measures my school has implemented have an impact or is it still just luck?

Above is the question I asked. Have an impact.
I did not ask whether those measures would keep Covid 100% out of the school did I?

Above is the question I asked. Have an impact. I did not ask whether those measures would keep Covid 100% out of the school did I?

noblegiraffe answered your question.

I'm definitely out now! 😁

Above is the question I asked. Have an impact.
I did not ask whether those measures would keep Covid 100% out of the school did I?

Are you this confrontational all the time? It must be exhausting.

noble just explained the impact mitigation measures are likely to have.

I think it's important to remember that none of us have all the answers and we are never going to be able to create the perfect set up.

However, to all the school staff commenting in this thread, it's important to remember that no matter what we think / wish was happening etc... We are sticking in there. We've got through this half term..we have a week off now to regroup and then go back into what we all know is going to be a bloody tough half term until Christmas.

I suggest we all take a moment to consider that we've been doing the best we can in this completely ridiculous situation... Well done everyone. Have a lovely and hopefully relaxing week off.

Thabks @OpheliasCrayon

@noblegiraffe

So will the measures my school has implemented have an impact or is it still just luck?

They won’t stop covid getting into your school, that really will be luck, made more lucky by parental compliance.

What the measures will do is reduce the risk of spread once COVID is in the school. If bubbles really are separate (no siblings, no shared transport, no shared teachers, no cross bubble socialising) and the bubble affected is sent home, then the chances of the infected person having infected a different bubble are low.

Extra ventilation, hand washing, good hygiene, will reduce the chances of it spreading to another person within the bubble. However the lack of masks and lack of social distancing still means there’s a reasonable risk.

Great post noble

There's always going to be an element of luck involved of course.

However, with DD's school they were socially distanced (desks 2m apart) in June / July in a half sized class. No-one got sick, over 4 weeks, at all. This term, there have been a number of kids off sick each week (the start of term was a disaster, hardly anyone was in some days - all off waiting for tests, luckily none positive).

So I'd say that social distancing and small class sizes, as all the experts recommend, does really make a difference to communicable disease (not just sars-cov-2).

Dr Fauci in the US is constantly saying what you need to do is
wear a mask
avoid crowded indoor settings
keep your distance
wash your hands.

Of those basic things he thinks are critical, we have one in schools (washing hands) so I'm going to be honest, I think if there's a case in a bubble there is a high chance of transmission within that bubble. It's the perfect environment for sars-cov-2 spread.

And yes, a big thanks to all the teachers who keep on keeping on and put our kids first, before their own sanity and safety a lot of the time. May you all have a restful and peaceful half term.

We would be lost without you (which is why we really need to up our game and make your working environment safer).

I haven't read the full thread but I would suggest

• a dedicated team in each school for remote lessons for the individuals isolating. These would be addition teachers/LSAs who would plan, deliver and support live lessons to the individuals isolating. Not whole cohorts but say you have 5 or 6 isolating from a class. These.

This team could be made up of supply teachers.

• mandatory hand washing at the start and end of lessons, sinks to do this.

-outside heaters, covered spaces and more benches for outside break times.

• less time in schools. The time in schools to cover the essentials, the time away from school to consolidate.

• a decent plan to support children with SEND. Any student with an EHCP to be guaranteed EP input by their next annual review to assess impact of covid and to accurately review provision.

• parental access nationwide to EP services to empower parents to identify any issues and encourage them to develop strategies for wellbeing and mental health support.

Pretty surprised from this thread that you only have mandatory masks in communal areas in English schools or have I misunderstood?

I'm in Ireland and here secondary kids and teachers wear masks everywhere inside. Teachers have headset microphones. In my kid's school if they take off the mask they are sent home for the day.

Schools ARE ‘safe’ because kids don’t suffer with the virus any more than they would anything else. They aren’t going to get hit by a bus being in school so please stop using the term safe 🙄

Sorry yes you have misunderstood. Masks are not mandatory in corridors (unless in a tier 3 area) and strictly forbidden in classrooms.
It's stupid, negligent, and typical of this government shit show.

@2020fedup

Schools ARE ‘safe’ because kids don’t suffer with the virus any more than they would anything else. They aren’t going to get hit by a bus being in school so please stop using the term safe 🙄

Except it's not just kids in schools. Many adults of varying ages and medical status are also present. Kids also have adults they live with and visit.

Yes obviously. I’m a teacher who is classed as vulnerable so I realise this. However I can either change jobs or do my job... which is to educate children .

If people think it’s ‘unsafe’ to send kids to school, don’t send them. Let the ones with more sense crack on .

My DDs school has 7 classes. Use of the community centre could add another 4 classroom spaces, with everything needed already pretty much in place (has a secure outdoor play area, Internet, tables and chairs) the use of the church halls would take that number to 7 and bam you can halve the class sizes. However the issue is that they would need 7 extra teachers and tas etc.

I'm happy with how DS school is functioning. He is at a special school and class sizes are small anyway l, usually around 6-10 kids per class. Each class already has its own outdoor area and toilets. Kids eat lunch in classrooms so no reason to ever mix a bubble except on school transport.

@WhyNotMe40 why are masks forbidden in classrooms?

Masks in secondary school classrooms are as normal in Ireland as they are in the supermarket. Nobody really has a problem with it and I don't recall very much commentary about it in the media. In primary schools (I think) teachers wear masks but kids don't as there is some evidence that younger kids don't transmit the virus as much.

The commentary here from the teaching unions is about making schools safer for teachers after the midterm as we are now in level 5 lockdown. Gov has allocated money to reduce the teacher pupil ratio but not sure that will make much difference (and they need to do that irrespective of COVID).

I guess masks are just so cheap and easy to implement compared to the rest of the ideas, it just seems odd not to be doing it already.

@Coppercreek

My DDs school has 7 classes. Use of the community centre could add another 4 classroom spaces, with everything needed already pretty much in place (has a secure outdoor play area, Internet, tables and chairs) the use of the church halls would take that number to 7 and bam you can halve the class sizes. However the issue is that they would need 7 extra teachers and tas etc.

I'm happy with how DS school is functioning. He is at a special school and class sizes are small anyway l, usually around 6-10 kids per class. Each class already has its own outdoor area and toilets. Kids eat lunch in classrooms so no reason to ever mix a bubble except on school transport.

Very glad you feel happy. The key thing here is children not suffering and getting the education they are entitled too.

Have a lovely half term school staff

@Focalpoint

Pretty surprised from this thread that you only have mandatory masks in communal areas in English schools or have I misunderstood?

I'm in Ireland and here secondary kids and teachers wear masks everywhere inside. Teachers have headset microphones. In my kid's school if they take off the mask they are sent home for the day.

This is brilliant and would totally get my vote as a parent

I am really fascinated by this thread as I was only saying to my dh today how it’s amazing the govt have thrown money at lots of things but virtually none at education yet most of these issues would be relatively low cost
I am amazed at how much schools vary though in terms of what they have done to date. I know teachers might claim it’s due to £ again and sometimes of course it will Be, but for our local schools the finances are v similar but provision v different

Anyway enough of the politics....
My key concern, although not in schools control most of the time, is the school buses. Still packed in like sardines, still about half wearing masks. They are in a Petri dish before and after school. It’s bound to spread......

I know LAs got some funding for this but heaven knows where ours went....(tier 3 area...)

Anyway. Thanks again for the thread. At the vary least it might inspire local ideas in fatigued schools

please stop using the term safe

I mean the government have removed “schools are not high risk” from their guidance but ok....

www.tes.com/news/Covid-dfe-cuts-schools-arent-high-risk-line-guidance

If you’re a teacher then it’s pretty irresponsible to not want to do everything you can to keep the school community as safe as possible.

@noblegiraffe

Because I am so bored of the misrepresentation and lies going on on this site by people who shout down anyone who raises concerns about the current situation in schools as 'wanting schools to close indefinitely'. The people lacking in imagination who seem to insist that either things carry on as they are (with hundreds of thousands of kids not in school due to the spread in infection), or that schools close and there's nothing in between that can possibly be done to make things safer.

So here's my list, mostly copied from another thread:

We could start with an effective test and trace system, which we were told was essential for the safe re-opening of schools, but we opened without.

We could move onto making sure that all classrooms have windows. And then that those windows open. A national WEAR A VEST campaign to stop parents and kid complaining that it's cold. Germany have just invested a large amount of money in improving ventilation in schools, the UK should follow them.

Masks. Why do the government keep insisting they're not needed in corridors (from the comfort of a socially distanced parliament) and that it's impossible to use them in classrooms when the rest of the world seem to manage? What lessons can we learn from the international experience?

Marquees/covers on the playgrounds so that kids aren't inside for wet break. I know that wet break caused a whole year group to be sent home in a local school as it was uncontrolled indoor close contact.

For it to be mandatory (not simply 'where possible') that classrooms are arranged so that teachers are 2m from the kids when teaching. If smaller class sizes are needed to facilitate this, then solutions must be found even if the government needs to pay money for bigger spaces.

Parents to be supported/sanctioned to avoid kids being sent into school with symptoms or when they're supposed to be isolating.

The government to update its list of symptoms for children requiring a test to include the main ones that children experience, instead of the adult symptoms which they mainly don't.

Regular testing in schools, particularly when there are outbreaks, to enable more effective isolation.

Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)

Any other suggestions?

Can you please be PM at least for the day to start these balls rolling. Couldn’t agree more. I can’t believe that anybody who shouts you down is real. Choice for all parents and protection of vulnerable staff too please.