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Ways to make schools safer without closing them

504 replies

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 13:05

Because I am so bored of the misrepresentation and lies going on on this site by people who shout down anyone who raises concerns about the current situation in schools as 'wanting schools to close indefinitely'. The people lacking in imagination who seem to insist that either things carry on as they are (with hundreds of thousands of kids not in school due to the spread in infection), or that schools close and there's nothing in between that can possibly be done to make things safer.

So here's my list, mostly copied from another thread:

We could start with an effective test and trace system, which we were told was essential for the safe re-opening of schools, but we opened without.

We could move onto making sure that all classrooms have windows. And then that those windows open. A national WEAR A VEST campaign to stop parents and kid complaining that it's cold. Germany have just invested a large amount of money in improving ventilation in schools, the UK should follow them.

Masks. Why do the government keep insisting they're not needed in corridors (from the comfort of a socially distanced parliament) and that it's impossible to use them in classrooms when the rest of the world seem to manage? What lessons can we learn from the international experience?

Marquees/covers on the playgrounds so that kids aren't inside for wet break. I know that wet break caused a whole year group to be sent home in a local school as it was uncontrolled indoor close contact.

For it to be mandatory (not simply 'where possible') that classrooms are arranged so that teachers are 2m from the kids when teaching. If smaller class sizes are needed to facilitate this, then solutions must be found even if the government needs to pay money for bigger spaces.

Parents to be supported/sanctioned to avoid kids being sent into school with symptoms or when they're supposed to be isolating.

The government to update its list of symptoms for children requiring a test to include the main ones that children experience, instead of the adult symptoms which they mainly don't.

Regular testing in schools, particularly when there are outbreaks, to enable more effective isolation.

Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)

Any other suggestions?

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 24/10/2020 18:09

what are yours?

Mine are at the start of the thread.

baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:10

I scanned through so didn't notice them. Nothing groundbreaking then I assume. Besides I was responding to the OP

Endofmytether2020 · 24/10/2020 18:11

I absolutely agree that schools are unsafe and have argued this from day one. I’ve been hugely supportive of teachers. My children go to schools where the teachers are protected behind plexiglass screens or wear visors, and I’m completely supportive of that. My kids on the other hand, can’t socially distance. Children who are ECV are a very small minority, and, with their consultant’s support, arrangements can be made for them to access education in a different way. So the focus should be on their continued contact with their teachers and peers ahead of reintegration. @noblegiraffe said at *13:24:39 “if vulnerable kids were allowed to stay at home then this would facilitate smaller class sizes”. That’s both inaccurate (very small numbers of ECV kids) and unpleasant.

Newnamenewopenme · 24/10/2020 18:13

Also, in relation to OFSTED, I was under the impression that these Covid inspections were looking at the quality of work being sent home? We’ve been asked to keep a record incase we need to evidence it! Is that not correct?

ohthegoats · 24/10/2020 18:15

Are you or are you not arguing that ECV children being at home would free up space to create a 2 metre zone for the teacher? Are you or are you not arguing that their current school passes over responsibility for their education?

I read the OP. I don't think anyone is 'arguing'. It suggests that if ECV children want to stay at home, and are able to stay at home (which they currently aren't 'allowed' to without fines), then they should be able to. In addition to this obviously being safer for the child, it would have the added benefit of adding to safety measures in school by making classes smaller.

The OP also suggested that ECV teachers could work from home. These teachers, of which there are plenty, could be tasked with remote schooling of children who are ECV too. This would enable there to be a community of children and teachers receiving education that is professional, and is as safe as it can be. It's not perfect for the child from a social perspective, but it's better than the alternative.

Responsibility for the education of children who are isolating lots of times, ECV, home due to ECV parents, home due to anxiety etc is very tricky to sort out as an issue for all schools. While schools and teachers are held accountable for the progress of children who aren't there, this is going to be a problem. The DfE needs to decouble those issues really.

SmileEachDay · 24/10/2020 18:16

I scanned through so didn't notice them. Nothing groundbreaking then I assume. Besides I was responding to the OP

Well, you weren’t..the OP asked for suggestions...

No, my suggestions weren’t groundbreaking. I don’t think we need groundbreaking. We just need to create more space between the people in school. That boils down to either smaller groups or bigger spaces. 🤷🏻‍♀️

ohthegoats · 24/10/2020 18:17

I was under the impression that these Covid inspections were looking at the quality of work being sent home?

Not that I've heard of. Anecdata, but schools I know about have just had general chats about how things have been going since the school has been back. We've got records of what we produced to go home, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to look at stuff from last year. Current stuff is on the school website, but I'm refreshing it and not leaving old stuff up.

ladygracie · 24/10/2020 18:17

My son’s sixth form are doing blended learning. He is in one week then remote learning the next week. This meant that when a student in his bubble tested positive they didn’t all have to isolate. It seems to be working well. In contrast another sixth form had to close entirely as they had all students in. That won’t work for all settings I know. I’m a primary teacher and 2m distance isn’t possible and masks in class isn’t practical so I’m not sure how to make that safer.

baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:18

@Barbie222 I'm in Surrey & we don't have terrible rates. I meant the measures implemented post risk assessment.

Dcs school have masks everywhere except classrooms, staggered timings, sink at school entrances/exits, very strict bubbles. No after school clubs, static classrooms etc. I'm happy with what they are doing & my dc returned when they could before the summer holidays.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:19

The thing about suggestions is that they don’t need to be groundbreaking to be an improvement on the current situation, which is shit by international standards.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 24/10/2020 18:20

It's not really fair to force children to do what adults wont - the virus is just as capable of spreading in a work canteen as it is a school one!

By that logic kids shouldn't have to go to school till every worker in the country is jammed cheek to jowl into a 4.5m square room with 30 other people and no ppe.

Up for it?

baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:20

Well, you weren’t..the OP asked for suggestions...

Oh I misunderstood, we can only add to the OPs list & not discuss any of their suggestions.

You seem a little agitated.

ohthegoats · 24/10/2020 18:21

That’s both inaccurate (very small numbers of ECV kids) and unpleasant.

No it's not. It's just factual - both points. Even if one child in the school is ECV and at home, one class is smaller. She's not saying they MUST stay home, just that if it's safer to, and parents want them to, then they should. I totally agree. I think that anyone who wants to keep their child at home should be able to without fines.

I've got a child in my class at the moment with an ECV mother - she's in and out, they can't work out what to do longer term. It's disrupting her a lot - they are working hard at home, I'm marking work when she's in and so on, but socially it's not working because she's a bit scared, and academically she'd be better off being permanently in one place. They keep coming in and out and lying that she is ill - she isn't ill, they just don't want to pay a fine or off roll.

This is a temporary situation.

TheHoneyBadger · 24/10/2020 18:21

world beatingly shit

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:21

Children who are ECV are a very small minority

But it’s still abhorrent to suggest their parents should have a choice about whether to send them in? And unpleasant to suggest that resources and teachers could be put at their disposal should they choose to stay at home.

Ok, you crack on. Not worth it.

OP posts:
baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:23

I don't think anyone would be against smaller classes even pre Covid. I think there would need to be some pretty groundbreaking solutions though in order for schools to facilitate that.

ohthegoats · 24/10/2020 18:23

I’m a primary teacher and 2m distance isn’t possible and masks in class isn’t practical so I’m not sure how to make that safer.

I want to be able to send home the children who think it's OK to wander around the school and 'break' bubbles constantly. They piss me right off. I'm not particularly vulnerable, but the other adult in my 'bubble' is, and so is my partner. I want us to keep to our bubble really tightly, but their EHCPs allow them to wander freely apparently, so that's us fucked.

baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:25

in a short time span.

pressed post too soon.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:25

@TheHoneyBadger

world beatingly shit
Yes! Finally world beating at something!
OP posts:
Ducksurprise · 24/10/2020 18:26

Anyone seen the major schools outbreak in Australia?

Anyway, I'd make schools safer by enforcing social distancing. That would be the number one aim, 2m apart, and there would be funding and help to make it work. Millions of workplaces have managed this so its not asking too much.

SmileEachDay · 24/10/2020 18:27

You seem a little agitated

Not at all. I asked for your ideas, you responded with some ideas then attempted to put me in my place by using sarcasm.

🤷🏻‍♀️

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:29

I'm afraid there is no correlation at all between how hard your school worked on it's risk assessment, and how many cases of covid are found there.

Indeed. Especially if parents don’t play ball and don’t get kids tested when they think the kid has it/send them in with symptoms/get them tested and send them in while waiting on results.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:29

Anyone seen the major schools outbreak in Australia?

No, what happened there?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 18:31

At their own expense no doubt?

No, there’s a school bus between sites.

OP posts:
baller20 · 24/10/2020 18:34

Not at all. I asked for your ideas, you responded with some ideas then attempted to put me in my place by using sarcasm.

I responded to the OPs post (which is normal) & you replied to me asking for my ideas. Then told me that I should have responded to the OPs request for suggestions. You seem agitated.
I wasn't attempting sarcasm, I didn't notice anything.

🤷‍♀️

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