Ways to make schools safer without closing them

[noblegiraffe]

Because I am so bored of the misrepresentation and lies going on on this site by people who shout down anyone who raises concerns about the current situation in schools as 'wanting schools to close indefinitely'. The people lacking in imagination who seem to insist that either things carry on as they are (with hundreds of thousands of kids not in school due to the spread in infection), or that schools close and there's nothing in between that can possibly be done to make things safer.

So here's my list, mostly copied from another thread:

We could start with an effective test and trace system, which we were told was essential for the safe re-opening of schools, but we opened without.

We could move onto making sure that all classrooms have windows. And then that those windows open. A national WEAR A VEST campaign to stop parents and kid complaining that it's cold. Germany have just invested a large amount of money in improving ventilation in schools, the UK should follow them.

Masks. Why do the government keep insisting they're not needed in corridors (from the comfort of a socially distanced parliament) and that it's impossible to use them in classrooms when the rest of the world seem to manage? What lessons can we learn from the international experience?

Marquees/covers on the playgrounds so that kids aren't inside for wet break. I know that wet break caused a whole year group to be sent home in a local school as it was uncontrolled indoor close contact.

For it to be mandatory (not simply 'where possible') that classrooms are arranged so that teachers are 2m from the kids when teaching. If smaller class sizes are needed to facilitate this, then solutions must be found even if the government needs to pay money for bigger spaces.

Parents to be supported/sanctioned to avoid kids being sent into school with symptoms or when they're supposed to be isolating.

The government to update its list of symptoms for children requiring a test to include the main ones that children experience, instead of the adult symptoms which they mainly don't.

Regular testing in schools, particularly when there are outbreaks, to enable more effective isolation.

Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)

Any other suggestions?

Endofmytether2020

I think the OP was suggesting that clinically vulnerable students should have the choice to stay at home and that if they did, it would reduce class sizes - not that they must stay at home!

Or have I misunderstood your concern?

Everything the OP has suggested is about making schools safer for everyone.

@headstrong27

Why don't pupils have to confirm the results of their tests? Surely that will help the fucked schools?

It’s another one of those areas which seem to differ between schools isn’t it? Ds2 (primary) was off school with covid symptoms, so of course ds1 (secondary) had to stay home too. Once ds2 had received his negative test, his school accepted him back with no confirmation needed.

Ds1’s school, however, asked for proof of his brother’s negative test before ds1 was allowed back to school. I was more than happy to give it.

I can understand it would be a logistical nightmare for schools to do this, bit I was impressed with how thorough they were being.

Our secondary school does have a mandatory mask policy in corridors at school.

The have a very strict seating plan, all face one way and vey strict bubbles.
Only 1 case in school and that was a Yr 11 that turned up feeling unwell and was sent home straight away. Was positive as were his parents - his bubble isolated and no other students or the teacher affected. It worked here. We have a really low infection rate but people are following the guidelines here.

The only problem was an outbreak at the university campus... they didn't follow guidelines and was party central a few weeks ago - it didn't spread to the wider community though despite students irresponsibly not following lockdown requirements and some wandering around the local area.
The rates for the uni are dropping now. The wider area is low risk.

I agree that ECV students should be given the chance to stay home and have online tuition. Not cv students though since the risk to children is minimal anyway.

ECV staff option to wfh but cv not since again the risk rate under 60 - let's face it most teachers are under 60 is very low

@SmileEachDay

Endofmytether2020

I think the OP was suggesting that clinically vulnerable students should have the choice to stay at home and that if they did, it would reduce class sizes - not that they must stay at home!

Or have I misunderstood your concern?

Everything the OP has suggested is about making schools safer for everyone.

That’s not what she said. Whether the small numbers of CEV children should be allowed to stay at home is a different discussion, but if they did, we should be arguing for them to have full social and academic support from their current schools to keep them supported, engaged and integrated. Not sticking them on their own with Oak Academy so the teacher can have a bit more space (not solving the issue of distance between students desks for example). It’s really abhorrent as well as a pointless argument.

Here was my OP

“Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)”

Is this really ‘absolutely abhorrent’?

Endofmytether2020

The OP said:

Vulnerable kids to be allowed the option of staying at home. Schooling could be provided by Oak Academy (why spend millions on it and not use it?) and the army of 'catch-up tutors' to provide feedback on work (or ECV teachers also permitted to stay at home)

So - not “sticking them on their own”.

And she didn’t suggest it “so the teacher could have a bit more space”.

What do you think the best way to ensure the safety of clinically vulnerable students is?

Why do people keep rewriting my opinions and then bitching?

Are you or are you not arguing that ECV children being at home would free up space to create a 2 metre zone for the teacher? Are you or are you not arguing that their current school passes over responsibility for their education?

@noblegiraffe

Why do people keep rewriting my opinions and then bitching?

It's ridiculous how this happens repeatedly. How any rational person can have any issue with what you are asking for I will never know. How very dare you think of ways for all to be safe in schools. You are clearly mad to want it.

@Endofmytether2020

Are you or are you not arguing that ECV children being at home would free up space to create a 2 metre zone for the teacher? Are you or are you not arguing that their current school passes over responsibility for their education?

She’s arguing they should be allowed to stay at home with tutor support if they want to. To make it safer from them. Suggestions about smaller classes were given separately, as they need to happen too. They aren’t the same measure. It’s pretty clear if you actually read the OP.

In terms of planning for portakabins on site, you would need to do a site survey. Agree a location with the head taking into account safeguarding perimeters and fire evacuation routes. Have the services traced to see where they were underground, determine if there is capacity for additional classrooms, many schools are at capacity for the electricity and gas supplies. If no capacity, then no extra classrooms unless you change the meter - needing the cooperation of the statutory suppliers as you can't just get anyone to do that. They take ages to do anything.

Next, drawings of where they are going, checks on access routes to comply with the EA, design of any ramps or steps needed. Redo the fire plan for the whole site.

Then you have to find units that are available. Find a contractor to price and put all the enabling works in. Foundations, paths, service trenches, fencing etc. Coordinate the delivery of the units, get them hooked up to services. All the services need testing. Installation of wifi - is the schools broadband sufficient or does that need upgrading as well? Fire alarm and burglar alarm - integrated with the main school system? If not, how do lockdown and fire alarms get communicated effectively?

Additional interactive whiteboards will need to be wired in, portakabins don't always come with blinds usually so they will be needed for it to be a useable teaching space.

There are hundreds of things that need to happen for a portakabin to work as a classroom - rushing it will result in a load of spaces that are crap for teaching in and really expensive. For a whole secondary school, how many would you need? 20?

I don't disagree that potentially more space is needed. But "chuck a few portakabins in" is not the "gotcha" for efficient provision of this, no matter how much money you throw at it.

@noblegiraffe

Why do people keep rewriting my opinions and then bitching?

I think it’s because they want you to be wrong as otherwise they would have to admit that you, and other teachers amongst us, were right about the risk of schools opening as they have. They have no actual argument why you are wrong, so they have to determinedly change what you are saying so it is wrong and they can argue against it. It must be infuriating for you as it’s driving me round the bend...

@noblegiraffe

We're short of teachers for the schools we have now!

You misunderstand. The teachers and pupils we currently have could be put into larger rooms.

I know of several schools with split sites and teachers travelling between them.

At their own expense no doubt ?

We've got a whole bunch of inspectors currently doing fuck all. Why not use them for something?
get the ones who are qualified to teach in portacabins with smaller classes

@noblegiraffe

Why do people keep rewriting my opinions and then bitching?

Because your opinion doesn't suit what they want. Much easier to try to make you sound like you're unreasonable & the crazy person who would like schools to be closed forever. I've noticed previously you can state what you actually meant and they go right ahead & stick to what they rewrote you saying.

Fact remains, the situation within schools that are ''okay'' now, will not be the case as we head in to winter. This can't be what we want for our children. It can't be a hope for the best situation. Something needs sorting now otherwise the posters stating schools need to stay open will be on here in a few months, wondering why it all went so wrong, when it was all going so right ignorant & clueless

@NothingIsWrong

In terms of planning for portakabins on site, you would need to do a site survey. Agree a location with the head taking into account safeguarding perimeters and fire evacuation routes. Have the services traced to see where they were underground, determine if there is capacity for additional classrooms, many schools are at capacity for the electricity and gas supplies. If no capacity, then no extra classrooms unless you change the meter - needing the cooperation of the statutory suppliers as you can't just get anyone to do that. They take ages to do anything.

Next, drawings of where they are going, checks on access routes to comply with the EA, design of any ramps or steps needed. Redo the fire plan for the whole site.

Then you have to find units that are available. Find a contractor to price and put all the enabling works in. Foundations, paths, service trenches, fencing etc. Coordinate the delivery of the units, get them hooked up to services. All the services need testing. Installation of wifi - is the schools broadband sufficient or does that need upgrading as well? Fire alarm and burglar alarm - integrated with the main school system? If not, how do lockdown and fire alarms get communicated effectively?

Additional interactive whiteboards will need to be wired in, portakabins don't always come with blinds usually so they will be needed for it to be a useable teaching space.

There are hundreds of things that need to happen for a portakabin to work as a classroom - rushing it will result in a load of spaces that are crap for teaching in and really expensive. For a whole secondary school, how many would you need? 20?

I don't disagree that potentially more space is needed. But "chuck a few portakabins in" is not the "gotcha" for efficient provision of this, no matter how much money you throw at it.

I don't think anyone has said that. But just because it's not easy, doesn't mean it's not worth doing? Also - getting festival organisers to sort out "week out" alternative provision in altery spaces / theatres / sports facilities / conference halls would also not be easy but still worth doing. If we want school to remain open of course

Regular testing in schools, particularly when there are outbreaks, to enable more effective isolation.

Regular testing would be great. Would parental consent be required though?

I dislike masks in the classrooms but visors are ok.

A national WEAR A VEST campaign to stop parents and kid complaining that it's cold.

I love a vest but not sure that's a good use of money in reality. Good ventilation is something to aim for though.

Not sure how you facilitate extra space for smaller class sizes.

baller20

And your ideas? Everyone can contribute!

Fact remains, the situation within schools that are ''okay'' now, will not be the case as we head in to winter.

Is this location dependent do you think? My dcs school seems to have worked very hard on its risk assessment & only 1 confirmed case so far.

Visors are useless unless paired with a mask.

Provide funding for additional teachers so that schools who have spare space can make classes smaller.
This wouldn’t work at mine as we are struggling to recruit as it is. We currently have TAs teaching lessons and it’s a disaster (they have all been there 30years plus and unfortunately aren’t very competent)
We would be better on a rota system so that we can have smaller groups in and everyone still access a proper teacher. We could do a year group in a day and half the teachers teach - keeping classes small and the other half planning good quality work for them to do at home and marking it. Currently we have to upload work for individual kids that are off but it’s not great quality as it’s only a few from each class so it’s in addition to a normal day teaching, usually with cover because of staff absence and struggling to get supply.

If we stay as we are I think at my secondary we would be better with one teacher covering all subjects (which I know will be difficult it as it isn’t our expertise). We had one teacher test positive which took out 2 year 11 classes, a year 10 class and a year 9, had they only seen one teacher only one class would have gone home! A confirmed kid took out their tutor group and 3 teachers, again sticking with one teacher all day would have kept 2 more staff members in

@SmileEachDay I think masks in corridors, staggered timings, more sinks if possible, frequent cleaning etc.

what are yours?

@baller20

Fact remains, the situation within schools that are ''okay'' now, will not be the case as we head in to winter.

Is this location dependent do you think? My dcs school seems to have worked very hard on its risk assessment & only 1 confirmed case so far.

I'm afraid there is no correlation at all between how hard your school worked on it's risk assessment, and how many cases of covid are found there. If it's in the community, it will come in, and unless your school has had a massive injection of funds to provide half size classes or double-distance rooms, the conditions for spread in school will amplify anything coming in an awful lot.

Visors are useless unless paired with a mask.

Well I still don't support mask wearing in classrooms, particularly at primary level