Do we need a reality check about covid?

[TheSilence]

I’m so quiet about this in real life, and bite my tongue but I’m so sick of hearing certain things and it’s making me despair of the human race.

I am no scientist, nor do I especially understand research/data or statistics.

But in a nutshell, I am sick of people minimising this virus. I’ve seen and heard it for 7 months now and am most frustrated by these kinds of comments:

“It’s just flu but they’ve renamed it”
“Flu has a higher death rate”
“For 99% of people it’s just like having the common cold”
“All nurses ever do is film tik Tok videos”
“Long covid doesn’t exist”
“Masks cause severe neurological damage”!

This is just a few because I don’t want to rant too much, I haven’t even covered the vast amount of conspiracy theories I’ve read.

From my understanding, all of those statements I’ve said are wrong, but I’m aware that my understanding is wrong.
I know some people might be reading this thinking I’ve got it back to front and that people are over estimating this virus, but that hasn’t been my experience at all.

Bottom line is, the single most important thing about covid that makes it a severe threat is that it’s brand new. The people who understand these things barely understand this. When going into a battle or war, knowing and understanding your enemy gives you a huge advantage. It’s the same with this, and tbh I can’t get my head around the statements people make with such certainty, such as “I KNOW for a fact if I or my family get it we’ll definitely be fine” or “Long covid is DEFINITELY the same as any post viral syndrome”. How can these people be so ridiculously sure when scientists aren’t?

I hate the arrogance and huge egos of people in this country and other western countries.

And yes I’m struggling with severe mental health issues that I can’t get proper help for because of covid. As I know I sound very ranty and possibly angry.

I’m just saying - please take this seriously.

@IceCreamSummer20 come on so why was I wrong when I said we could only judge economic impact in 2 years? I’m still waiting for your considered response.

Some of that is misinformation - some willful and some not, some of that (particularly the nurse remark) is just being rude, and yes, some are conspiracy theories.

“Long covid is DEFINITELY the same as any post viral syndrome”. How can these people be so ridiculously sure when scientists aren’t?

For months, in research articles coming out, Long COVID was being discussed as or a variant of post viral syndrome (much as there are several conditions that are considered variants of it). Many forms of media either ignored or barely mentioned that. Some people with conditions linked to post-viral syndrome pushed to have that reframed, if only to give those dealing with Long COVID further resources. This isn't people not taking Long COVID seriously, it is people wanting post-viral syndrome to be more widely recognized and taken more seriously.

Now, Long COVID is more broken up into four: post-intensive-care syndrome from the treatment, permanent organ damage to the lungs and heart which can be caused by illness, the treatment, and/or a post-viral reaction, post-viral (fatigue) syndrome, and those who experience continuing symptoms. All of these can happen with other viruses. SARS-Cov-2 is new, but it isn't alien. Other people have gone through similar.

Many people with Long COVID have gotten support through other chronic illness groups and support networks. While each person's experience will be different, and that's obviously important to recognize, I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing them into the community. They don't need to go through having their lives being turned upside down alone - some have years of experience and willing to be a supportive distanced shoulder. All those minimizing and conspiracy remarks - yeah, many chronically ill and disabled people have been getting those for a while.

Even with the new breakdown of Long COVID, I find people who think calling it a post-viral syndrome (whether by the virus or by treatment) is dismissive are dismissing the seriousness of other conditions and what those who live with them go through with lack of knowledge and consideration that exists even when they've been recognized for years.

“It’s just flu but they’ve renamed it”

Coronavirus and inflenza viruses are different but they share many symptoms and pose a danger to the same demographic (elderly and/or those with multiple health problems.

“Flu has a higher death rate”

Flu certainly can have a very high death rate. In the 2014/2015 flu season 28,189 deaths in the UK were attributed to flu.

“For 99% of people it’s just like having the common cold”

There are indications that upto 80% of people infected with coronavirus will have no symptoms. ie they will not even know they have it (unlike a cold). Over 99% of the population are not at serious risk from coronavirus and if they do have symptoms they are likely to be mild and similar to cold symptoms.

“All nurses ever do is film tik Tok videos”

Really?

“Long covid doesn’t exist”

No doubt some people suffer from post viral fatigue. Not many though.

“Masks cause severe neurological damage”

There is zero scientific evidence that general public mask wearing can inhibit virus spread.

@Thecobwebsarewinning

I guess it depends who you mix with. No one I know has said any of those things, at least not in my hearing. My friends and I (mostly middle class women, aged 48-70ish) and our families are taking it seriously and sticking to all the rules even when they are bat shit crazy.

My friends and I are also middle-class women (and men) aged 48-70 and are completely ignoring these batshit crazy rules.

But, yes, it depends on whom you mix with.

OP, we do need a reality check, but one that's the reverse of the one you are suggesting.

Some of your OP is true.
Over 99% of people recover.
For many it's a mild illness.
We dont know who will be unlucky and have something more severe.
Perhaps it will help your anxiety to focus on these?

I havent heard anyone denying long covid, but it seems reasonable to think it can be like any other post viral syndrome which of course can be very debilitating and long term.

Why is your freedom worth more than fellow human beings?

Realistically we all care about ourselves more than others because it's wholly natural to feel that way.

We're saving lives from covid but we're killing people too. So why are some people more important than others then eh??

sunflowers246
Sweden's economy was hit less badly than economies with strict lockdowns.

Complete misinformation.

Here is evidence:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/fdb6fbe4-4997-4f35-ba41-06ac2d6fd824

This is interesting too

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/sweden-coronavirus-covid19-lockdown-a4546976.html%3famp

You are right in that the virus is a serious threat, it isn't "just like 'flu" when you catch it and yes, health is important.

I have had the virus, and I was very ill with it (not hospitalised though); I have also seen people dying from it (local care home) and have lost a family friend as well as a previous work colleague to the virus.

Despite all this, I think the fear which has been engendered around this virus is way out of proportion and yes, we do need to have a reality check.....in the other direction. It really isn't the bubonic plague. It is much worse than 'flu and spreads much more easily BUT.....people also die from 'flu every year yet we don't shut down or live in fear of 'flu. Yes, I know there's a vaccine for 'flu but not everyone bothers to have the vaccine.

Instead of the fear, we need to be looking at ways of living side by side with this virus, not locking ourselves up and ruining the economy over it. The masks and sanitising and social distancing all help....people need to adhere to those much more closely (thinking of big parties and student gatherings and so forth). We need to concentrate on better treatments for those who catch the virus, pour more money into hospital resources, and then the vaccine.... Even today there is news that the Oxford vaccine apparently does work (although I'm afraid that's a Daily Fail news story, sorry).

There are other ways of doing this without all the fear and panic.

"Spanish flu was way more deadly than covid."

I'll reserve opinion on that until Covid is actually over, not at the beginning of the 2nd wave.

The second wave that many claimed wouldn't happen.

I thought you were going to suggest a reality check in the opposite direction. YABU

@HappyDays10101

I thought you were going to suggest a reality check in the opposite direction. YABU

Same

. It’s really bad for them and I’d hate to be in such a selfish society that feels that vulnerable or poorer people are worth less than my freedom to do whatever the hell I want.

Where do get this odd evidence from ? How many Swedes do you know?

Maybe you should get to know some or read about people actually living in Sweden!!

Agree that what's needed is a reality check in the other direction. My reality check would be:

This virus is going nowhere.
We cannot shut down the entire planet, forever.
Other illnesses matter every bit as much as Covid does.
At some point we need to learn to live with this and accept it as just another risk.
We have made huge progress in understanding how to treat this effectively in just 8 or 9 months.
Thinking that we all need to try to live with this rather than cower in your house trying to avoid it doesn't make you some conspiracy theorist anti-masker who wants to murder your granny.

YABU, i think a lot of people would rather have their jobs and businesses back. Absolutely not worth the economic fall out.
Also sick of hearing about saving the NHS, because for the last 7 months it’s not been available to anyone unless they have covid. I know a handful of people who’ve had to pay out to go private because they couldn’t get seen at their hospital. The only people who are still agreeing that lockdown is a great idea, are people who have been lucky enough to keep their jobs or are privileged and have a fair amount of money. For some people they absolutely cannot go on anymore

We definitely need a reality check in the other direction.

They are bringing in restrictions and also many vulnerable people feel totally shafted as they know they can’t just go out and about and catch Covid19. It

This is utter bollocks.

Restrictions in sweden are being lifted.
Anyone can go out.

I have no idea if people feel shafted and I dont know how the poster does either.

@SheepandCow

You're right OP.

I think some people are convinced it only affects The Others. It's disproportionately affected the poor, urban areas, BAME communities, and the disabled and elderly.

So some people think they'll be ok. Morals aside, they ignore the fact that's it new and still mostly unknown. Long Covid has been largely overlooked. We now know it's affecting many patients who had initially mild cases. Who knows what might come to light in the future - what hidden damage might show up several years down the line.

There's also the economic damage. The economy simply can't operate properly without containment. Yet still people fail to admit, recognise, or accept that.

Totally agree @SheepandCow I see your posts a lot on here and always find them very sensible and intelligent.

The thing you said about the damage in years to come really resonates with what I’m thinking about. Since March I’ve read a few people saying this is a possibility, and I can’t remember where now so I’m afraid I can’t quote a source, but a doctor said he wasn’t sure if the virus could be ‘bi-phasal’ which has really stuck with me. Basically that you get an initial infection which causes the respiratory symptoms, but then the virus stays in you and can flare up throughout life in various body systems. So like the HIV virus in some ways.

Is there any way of finding out How many "extra" people have died from Covid this years? Sadly a certan number of people will die in an average year.

Also what about non Covid deaths which could have been avoided ? i guess we will never know.

We are now entering a phase where ths restrictions may be contributing to deaths.
Its so confusing.

Sorry for anybody directly affected, I don't mean to sound heartless.

"There is an urgent need to place the hospital data into context of what normally happens at this time of year. The lack of transparent data and the tendency to over predict and exaggerate the problems is not helping decision-makers and affecting policy."

Paul Hunter

@Jericoo

I think if the response to Covid was more measured and proportionate, without incessant media scaremongering and constantly changing government advice, (and not adhering to their own rules, which they claim are incredibly important) people wouldn't be making comments like that. It's natural to feel sceptical given this kind of environment.

I actually do agree with this, the media have a lot to answer for. The government also a shit show and have completely lost the respect of the public.

I agree with this post wholeheartedly. Also the people who are the most dismissive are also the ones who look most annoyed if you don’t agree with their opinions. It seems that they need reassurance that their lack of consideration for rules is being supported.

@HeronLanyon

I agree fully op. FWIW to my ear you didn’t sound ‘ranty’ in the slightest. Calm, rational and well put!

Oh thank you! I read my post back last night and thought I sounded a little unhinged 😂

I think everything has just built up and it’s all too much. And I’m sure pretty much everyone is feeling the same in various ways after months of this.

I agree with the author's last sentence in the article below:

As the UK heads into a winter of anxiety and more arguments about curfews and Christmas being cancelled, remember Sweden, the liberal country across the North Sea that took a different approach and seems now to be reaping the rewards.

I agree with OpheliasCrayon. All the teachers I deal with are super happy to be teaching and much prefer to be at school with their colleagues and with the children rather than sitting at home staring at a computer screen.

I am getting tired of these threads -whinge fest--. There are. number of very vocal posters who may or may not be working at school and who screech ad nauseum how unsafe schools are and that they must shut immediately and indefinitely so that kids are locked away at home. It's laughable, really. Some people here don't seem to value education, which is a mindset I find so alien. Families around us are very supportive of teachers and schools, we donate cleaning products, comply with social distancing at pick up and drop off, adhere to one way systems and teach our children to be grateful for their education, respect their teachers and do their best. This generation of youngsters is very resilient and I am proud of them. I hope the school will never ever shut again during term time.