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France - is this where we’re heading?

84 replies

Dustballs · 22/10/2020 21:33

I’m shocked at the figures over there for number of infections.

Anyone actually in France - what is it like over there now? We were on holiday there and at the time it felt worrying to read 3,000 daily infections were being recorded. UK caught up quickly though.

I wonder what it’s like in France now as that is likely to be us soon.

OP posts:
Poppingnostopping · 23/10/2020 12:21

Lots of countries who had masks early on have done very well, Czech Republic, Asian countries.

In fact, if France has slightly lower death rate even with higher infection rates, it may be their mask wearing is slightly helping with that as it affects viral load and thus severity.

I don't see the evidence masks don't work, the countries that have controlled the virus best use it as part of a suite of measures, without good track and trace and with slow testing times, it can't compensate against that unfortunately. On it's own, masks aren't enough.

Fink · 23/10/2020 12:39

I travel to France regularly for work but am based in the UK. Because of the situation I'm WFH more so haven't been to France since September. When I was last there I noticed:

100% (adult) compliance on mask wearing in public places (outdoor city centres as well as everywhere indoors), no exemptions.

Social distancing was spoken about all the time, but there were quite a few settings where it wasn't really applied. I work in churches and in the UK they're very well spaced out and enforced by ushers (maximum number in the building, 2 metres between each household at all times etc.). In France the churches were distancing in terms of restricted seating but then once the seats got filled up, hundreds more people standing around the aisles and at the back. In one church (seating capacity reduced by about 50%), there were over 300 people without seats at the service. No ushers to enforce. When there is movement (e.g. to receive holy communion) the 2 metres isn't enforced (it is in the UK) and so on. Also they have gone back to the pre-covid times in terms of how the services are conducted, whereas in the UK there are a lot of restrictions (no singing, short preaching, receiving communion in silence). In shops I went into it was similar: you're told to keep socially distant, but there's none of the stuff you see in the UK like floor markings, one-way systems and all that.

Both countries seem similar on the handwashing message & gel available.

I only use services like hairdressers, doctors and the like in France when I'm on a longer stint over there so haven't been inside them for months.

notimagain · 23/10/2020 13:03

In shops I went into it was similar: you're told to keep socially distant, but there's none of the stuff you see in the UK like floor markings, one-way systems and all that.

There certainly are such in most of the shops and supermarkets in the part of France I live., and FWIW very strict entry protocols at the local hospital..despite the above like others upthread we go into curfew this weekend..

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/10/2020 13:11

Are the French counting deaths in exactly the same way as us, does anyone know?

InvincibleInvisibility · 23/10/2020 13:12

Definitely floor markings where I am in Paris. All restaurants have signs up with their max capacity, take names and numbers, provide gel and have barriers between tables that aren't spaced out enough.

miimblemomble · 23/10/2020 14:21

It is just not workable to send an entire year of primary school children home for 14 days for one infected person in the school

It goes further than that in France. The govy have basically decided that primary children are not contagious to either each other or to mask wearing adults. No bubbles here. If a child tests positive, none of the rest of the class are considered to be contact cases and as long as the teacher has Been a mask, the class carries on as normal. Thé infected child isolates for seven days after the test, then back to school. A class would only be closed if there were 3 or more cases in the same class.

Re. Private gatherings - the govt here does not have the authority to restrict private household gatherings, it would go against the constitution. So even now, if you wanted to, you can invite 100 people to your château for a party. They can only advise re private gatherings, and restrict where they can.

Honestly, despite the mask wearing (in offices, secondary schools etc) family life feels quite normal. Most things are open. Neither of my kids have had time off school. All the shops are open and there aren’t any queues etc. Sport / gym activities For under 15yrs are still running. No travel restrictions. And yes, the daily positive cases is ever increasing, but a great majority are young people with mild cases (including me). The death toll is nothing like it was back in April.

KristaK · 23/10/2020 14:36

@miimblemomble - that is what my French friends are describing too

IcedPurple · 23/10/2020 14:39

Lots of countries who had masks early on have done very well, Czech Republic, Asian countries.

You must not be keeping up with the news from the Czech Republic. It currently has one of the highest case loads per capita in the world.

Humphriescushion · 23/10/2020 14:43

@ the countess, the French figures are much closer to the excess deaths figures, ( covid deaths about 33,000 and excess deaths about 36,000 last time i looked), the uk stated figure is i think around 43,000 but the excess deaths no. Is 67,000 so this suggests that the uk is undercounting.

anuffername · 23/10/2020 14:45

Oh they have a better set up, everyone wears masks properly...unlike the feckless Brits

I am not sure anyone here is saying that it is "better".
Our figures are horrendous.

People are only saying that "everyone wears masks properly" because...well....they do.

I am just back from the supermarket. There is cleaning stuff and paper towels available beside each trolley park. Hand gel is available at the entrance to the shop. The floors are marked to remind you to keep your distance at the checkout. There are plastic screens to seperate the cashiers from the customers. Everyone was wearing a mask and I would say that 95% of people were wearing their masks all the time they were outside of their cars, not just inside the shop (that is mandatory in some areas but not here at the moment).

The OP asked what it was like in France at the moment.
We are responding with what it is like.

Would you like us to make shit up?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/10/2020 14:46

Thank you Humphriescushion. Interesting!

loobyloo1234 · 23/10/2020 15:19

feckless Brits

Confused

I think you mean to say 'some' of the - the majority do wear them. Just FYI

KristaK · 23/10/2020 16:07

All of what you describe in supermarkets is the same where I am (Surrey) in Waitrose there is someone cleaning each trolley before you are allowed to touch it and a strict control on numbers, in with cones to make you queue 2m apart. Everyone wears masks in all the shops, there are plastic screens in most of them and where there isn’t there is enforced distancing and card payments only. I suspect it is different in other areas but that’s just my experience here x

anuffername · 23/10/2020 16:13

Nobody posting from France has used the word "feckless" (or shite for that matter). I was quoting another poster.

I posted on a similar thread a few weeks ago about how things were in France, and was told that nobody was interested in my opinion as I don't pay tax in the UK.

TheKeatingFive · 23/10/2020 16:23

Lots of countries who had masks early on have done very well, Czech Republic

lol.

IcedPurple · 23/10/2020 16:58

MN is obsessed with masks, and especially with 'mask compliance'.

MadameBlobby · 23/10/2020 17:06

@loobyloo1234

feckless Brits Confused

I think you mean to say 'some' of the - the majority do wear them. Just FYI

I think you’ve missed the point of my post.
notimagain · 23/10/2020 19:36

I posted on a similar thread a few weeks ago about how things were in France, and was told that nobody was interested in my opinion as I don't pay tax in the UK.

Hmm

Does that mean they have to take an interest in the opinions expressed by those who pay tax on both sides of the channel...Biscuit

Anyhow as we now know tonight's figures for France are pretty darned close to last nights Sad.

Having seen how "it's done" both sides of the channel I'm not sure why we are seeing such a difference, other than the annual migration to southern France in July/August, and the slightly earlier return of students the facs etc might have given France an unwanted headstart in the autumn numbers game....

Redolent · 23/10/2020 19:48

@TheKeatingFive

Lots of countries who had masks early on have done very well, Czech Republic

lol.

Yeah you can kind of see where it all went wrong for them

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/czech-republic-scraps-face-mask-rule-as-prague-hosts-outdoor-party

Mmn654123 · 23/10/2020 20:29

@SexTrainGlue

Are you aware that we have a higher death rate per million of population than France?

Barely any difference, by ECDC data (last updated yesterday)

Death rate per 100,000
France 2.4, UK 2.5

Cases per 100,000
France 453.5 UK 367.5

655 deaths per million in the UK 528 deaths per million in France
lljkk · 23/10/2020 20:40

Are we heading into strict lockdown like Ireland & Czech? That's what I want to know. How strict and difficult are the rules of life going to get.

manicinsomniac · 23/10/2020 22:08

I'm confused by France now, tbh. Their daily numbers were consistently the same as our highest ones (ie they had 25,000ish for many days and we hit those kind of numbers 2 or 3 times) but then this sudden jump to around 41,000 for the last couple of days. That's one heck of a rise. When I saw it yesterday I thought there'd been a backlog but it doesn't seem to be that. Scary.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/10/2020 22:22

Maybe they are as bad at using Excel as we are.

Dustballs · 23/10/2020 22:32

I thought France had jumped up and I’d missed something too.

It is dreadful that we have higher death rate despite much lower infection rates.

OP posts:
miimblemomble · 24/10/2020 07:18

Totally non-scientific opinion here, but I think France is now experiencing rapid (uncontrollable ?) spread due to several decisions that were made to keep life as normal as possible:

Schools open as normal with total reliance on mask-wearing in the absence of distancing. No bubbles, no closing classes due to a positive test.
Reduction of the isolation period from 14 to 7 days - purely to increase compliance.
End of WFH as the norm and the majority returning to the office and all the public transport being used
Students returning to hugely overcrowded lecture theatres, no distancing possible (or even expected). They’ve just been told to go to 50:50 teaching.
Workers still following the cultural expectation where you sit down and eat, sans masks, with your colleagues, every day. Where I work, of the 20 cleaning staff (who are responsible for cleaning the door handles, refilling gels etc) were reduced to just 3 a couple of weeks ago: the other 17 had either tested positive or were Isolating as cas contact as they’d had lunch together every day as per normal, all maskless, all round the same table. It’s how I caught it too.
And the biggie ... No restriction on private gatherings, family lunches / Birthday parties / get-togethers all continuing as usual.

Initially the biggest rises have been in younger people, and that’s still the case. There are probably lots and lots of asymptomatic cases amount children too. But inevitably it’s spreading to the older population (no restrictions on family gatherings means they are continuing: it’s the Toussaint holidays just now, plenty of grandparents collecting children in my street last weekend, lots of friends heading off to visit grandparents elsewhere).

I said above that life feels quite normal and nice here. Well, this is the price we are paying for that: 40,000+ New cases in 24 hours.

The Govt will act when the hospital beds / icu beds run out, that’s their only red line.