Schools open for half a term now with no serious cases...

[RubyandBen]

I know there's been lots of DC and teachers off either because they've had CV or been in close contact with someone who has. But it seems there hasn't been anyone very ill (hospital ill) because of this. So measures do appear to be working. As it's sounding like only the ecv are going to be getting vaccinated (if one ever appears), should just the DC with CV stay off school and parents be given the choice to keep their DC off if in the same bubble? Would be much less disruptive.

@Tfoot75 what do you mean by this?
That's despite them being the only group that doesn't social distance and spends all day intermingling with 29 others
What makes you think primary children are the only ones who don't SD and spend time in large classes? I can assure you every secondary pupil does exactly this - except they mingle with more, as they don't spend all day with one class.

Sorry I assumed there was at least some attempt to social distance in secondaries. But if there isn't, still it's obvious that teens dont get close to more than a handful in their friendship group, whereas a 5yo (my 5yo at least) could play one on one for 15 mins with any of 100+ children every day. This age group is responsible for the lowest number of cases and has by far the largest number of close social connections (and will think nothing of sneezing all over their playmate). It isn't a coincidence, young children catch it and spread it far, far less than adults.

The issue is whether more teachers are dying than others which doesn’t seem the case?

I disagree.

I don't think we should WAIT until teachers DIE and we have the data to prove it (given that there may well be every attempt to not collect this data).

I think we should ask - do teachers have the same level of protection as every other worker? The answer to this is a resounding no.

If schools are still sending full year groups home then parents need to challenge as theylre are many schools who haven’t done that and aren’t making decisions without phe so are following correct procedure - they’re just better at reducing bubble size
A bubble in secondary, especially at ks4 and 5, has to be a year group so that students can do their chosen options. PHE told us to send our y11 bubble home this week. We didn't have a choice about it.

I think the graph is worrying because cases are now rising in the over 30s. You know the parents and grandparents of kids. Just as the heat maps suggested in the news conference.

Why would you think there was social distancing in secondaries? Our class sizes are not reduced in anyway. There is no space to SD. My teen is in two different classes depending on the subject. He will be in a different seat in each one - so a different group of students sitting around him in 5 classes a day. He walks through the corridor in a mass of bodies. He has lunch with others who may or may not be in his original classes.
It's very hard being told how safe schools are (and I bloody hope they are) by people with not a clue how schools work.

Some people on MN are so funny. I have a very close family member working as staff in a primary school (Tier 2 area with very high rates in the immediate area). First case in the school was very recent. The mum of the child who tested positive was adamant it was just a cold so dosed the child (the poor child told the teacher he'd had calpol that morning) but the child was later sent home by a teacher for appearing rather fatigued and lethargic. Then a cough developed the next day so the mum tested so that the child could return to school, then informed the school when it was positive (less than 24 hours!). Many children and some staff members now have to isolate over the half term. The school is next door to a massive secondary school and there are many siblings between the two schools. It wasn't until the first case popped up in the primary, that my family member learned about the many recent cases in the secondary. Children and staff. My family member was only aware of a small amount of cases at the beginning of term, not the amount she was told last week. After a while, cases were hushed, and there's nothing in the media. Nothing! This is in a highly populated but somewhat middle class area. It's all just so weird that I can find nothing about cases in the secondary anywhere.

Teachers are trying, we should get off their backs and let them control the narrative surrounding school safety. My family member has spoken to me at length because she and two people she lives with are high risk (not ECV but at risk according to people who were actually dying at higher rates). She's afraid. She said that soon after parents were informed of the positive result, complaints from parents flooded in; half term holidays ruined, can they just bring in their DC for the last few days of term as it's okay they'll test DC then they can come in, covid is not serious to children why all this, this is ridiculous my child's education has already been disrupted etc. As if the school exists to make life hard for parents. My family member is stressed but grateful for half term. And she's not even a teacher.

On the flip side, DS' school has been pretty low profile. If they've had cases, I've not heard anything. We were so apprehensive about DS going into school as my husband is ECV. DS' teacher is sooooooooooo amazing I could fight people for her . I don't want her to feel unsupported ever but I do wonder how she's handling all of this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558

Looks like they may end up considering closing some years.

Although he's not working for the gov now...

If schools are still sending full year groups home then parents need to challenge

Schools don't chose who they send home.
Certainly my school didn't.
The HT has to phone PHE each and every time, give them the necessary information and then PHE tells them which children and staff should isolate, and for how long.

Our staff positives have all resulted in different things happening each time:

One staff - 3 children and 2 other staff
Another - no staff or children
Another - year group bubble (3 classes) including staff
Another - full class home including 2 staff
Another - full class plus 3 children and 3 staff

They're some examples we've had in the past 2-3 weeks.

MrsHamlwt

That’s not true

Dd is year 10 and is in option groups they’ve had two cases this week and in conjunction with phe have only sent 20/140 home

Dd was in class with a child on Monday who has since tested positive and hasn’t been sent home as they sit on opposite sides of the class room - phe agreed with the schools contact list

It’s 2m for 15 mins and they don’t sit together so it’s fine

Some schools are simply not reducing bubbles or monitoring contacts enough

[quote RubyandBen]@Cookiecrisps the point is, the DC and teachers aren't becoming very unwell so should just they self isolate, and the rest of the bubble be given the choice.[/quote]
They are. The schools are being told to be secretive. I know two seriously ill teachers.

Sorry. Wrong quote.

@Ginogineli

MrsHamlwt

That’s not true

Dd is year 10 and is in option groups they’ve had two cases this week and in conjunction with phe have only sent 20/140 home

Because your school's situation is different from mind doesn't make it untrue. PHE told us to send the whole year group home.

@RubyandBen

*Trust me it wont be all over the news if teaches get ill/hospitalised* I doubt this very much.

That's the one I meant.

@Ginogineli

Dds achool has a seating plan and kids have to abide by it

Dd herself said she’s only spoke to this girl once all year! Why would she have to isolate

Schools are being lazy just sending everyone home it’s not the guidance they just aren’t tracking enough

PHE drive the decisions, not the schools. We have seating plans. We also have buses, trains, car shares, siblings in other year groups... I'm not sure what's lazy about following PHE and moving to remote teaching.

Aragog

Yes phe make the decision based on info schools give them

If schools can’t track then all year goes home but that doesn’t make it right

Schools should be tracking

Dd is in 6 core subjects and 4 diff options

She has a friend who’s in 6 of those classes so has been seated by her in all 6, in the other 4 classes she has two other contacts who she must sit with in those classes

So in reality 3 very close contacts

Plus possibly those nearby

If kids sitting anywhere and everywhere that’s poor management

Ok well our achool has had two cases this week in our 10 and sent 20/140 home in accordance with phe- based on info achool gave them

No whole year has been sent home once

No schools near me so this. It’s contacts only

MrsHamlwt

I’m not disputing that

But phe have made that decision because your tracking is poor

If it was detailed they wouldn’t have needed to

Siblings only matter if their the sibling of the person infected

I fear many schools are isolating ‘contacts of contacts’ which is not the process

Unless within 2 m for 15 mins they shouldn’t be sent home

If seated correctly in classes this shouldn’t be happening to classes never mind year groups

Gino - "if seated correctly"? My year 11 class has 32 students plus me in it. They simply cannot be 2m apart from each other. I teach a core subject, and our ks4 classes are setted for core subjects. Being good at English does not correlate with being good at maths or science - so that's three groups. Add form, and their options (which by the way we've kept up unlike some other schools) and you've got a wide range of contacts immediately. Then add break and lunch and the bus or the train and the numbers go up again.
Our tracking is not the problem. The problem is that there is a virus out there which people are catching.

I'm keeping the information I know quiet because I don't want to get into trouble at school. I'm telling staff I had it and they are surprised. Likewise, I'm finding out by drip feed, other staff members who have had it. Officially, none of the staff have any idea of the numbers of staff or kids affected. Nobody dares to make any knowledge public. We've actually been told to keep quiet about it. Several staff are seriously ill. I don't know the number of kids. As I said, I don't know this officially. The parents certainly have no idea at all.

Because of the bubbles and social distancing/separate staffrooms, the staff are not having the normal contract with everyone and the normal gossip that would happen is being contained. I'm not even setting eyes on people that I would have seen everyday in normal circumstances. It's easy for the schools to keep things quiet. The media just won't get hold of the full picture.

Schools are being lazy just sending everyone home it’s not the guidance they just aren’t tracking enough

How many times...PHE guide each school. The school does not make the decision around who must go home. I work across many schools. The response by PHE is different for EVERY SCHOOL because every school is different.

@Jeremyironseverything

I'm keeping the information I know quiet because I don't want to get into trouble at school. I'm telling staff I had it and they are surprised. Likewise, I'm finding out by drip feed, other staff members who have had it. Officially, none of the staff have any idea of the numbers of staff or kids affected. Nobody dares to make any knowledge public. We've actually been told to keep quiet about it. Several staff are seriously ill. I don't know the number of kids. As I said, I don't know this officially. The parents certainly have no idea at all.

Because of the bubbles and social distancing/separate staffrooms, the staff are not having the normal contract with everyone and the normal gossip that would happen is being contained. I'm not even setting eyes on people that I would have seen everyday in normal circumstances. It's easy for the schools to keep things quiet. The media just won't get hold of the full picture.

That sounds like most of the schools in my area suppressing the true number of cases. Unfortunately we have 2 teachers too who are seriously ill in hospital and both are in their early 30s with no underlying health problems and healthy BMIs 😞 they have been in hospital for 2-3 weeks now. We also had 2 slightly older members of staff (But also healthy) test positive and they were asymptomatic. They were asked to test through NHS due to contact. They wouldn’t have tested unless they were contacted and would’ve continued working. I don’t doubt for a moment the Uncontrollable rise in cases is Due to schools especially secondary.