Schools open for half a term now with no serious cases...

[RubyandBen]

I know there's been lots of DC and teachers off either because they've had CV or been in close contact with someone who has. But it seems there hasn't been anyone very ill (hospital ill) because of this. So measures do appear to be working. As it's sounding like only the ecv are going to be getting vaccinated (if one ever appears), should just the DC with CV stay off school and parents be given the choice to keep their DC off if in the same bubble? Would be much less disruptive.

@Aragog - do you think that the staff caught it at work? If so, is it transmission via children or between staff directly?

Not transmission between staff.

I had not been in close contact with any staff before or after.
Most of the staff have not had close contact as spread between different bubbles.

We know two of the 8 probably caught it from outside of school.

me? I can't be sure but I do know the on;y place I've had close contact with anyone bar dh is school, and that's the children as there's no SDing. No children have tested positive but their partners have, both before and since. I teach the whole school.

DH knows of people who have had it but again he's had no contact with them - totally different departments and floors. He's had no symptoms either.

I did go to a pub for a meal but again no contact with others. I didn't even get up to go to the toilet!

I've actually been really careful as I'm clinically vulnerable. At home and school I clean hands all the time and use anti bac on my hands and all touch points.

There is no way to guarantee but it seems an awful coincidence to me,

@WhyareWehardofthinking another who believes you. Op has an agenda going by their previous threads.

www.northamptonchron.co.uk/health/coronavirus/public-health-northamptonshire-has-no-plans-shut-more-schools-after-string-closures-announced-3010352?fbclid=IwAR3_N136P6hKat3Ny0MHt0fyiqMplltkzpijGdS63e-L8BfQwJJjIIyUDco

Tier 1...

@RubyandBen

OK got the message that you don't think my suggestion should happen. So do you all think that this approach is long term, considering it's unlikely the DC or most teachers will be vaccinated for many years (if there is a successful vaccine)?

Lockdowns and restrictions are very hard. This is a new virus and the world is still learning about the virus and approaches to a pandemic in general, we are only 8 months into it.

We have only just passed the initial firefighting stage of the first wave, tentatively experimenting with measures to see what will cause the least harm and preparing for the 2nd wave. This will all take time as the effects of any changes take weeks to be seen.

It is way too early, totally unrealistic, and harmful to your own mental health to take your limited knowledge and agonise over long term approaches right now.

I think the return of children to school has gone far better than predicted. Many predicted mass school closures and huge numbers of deaths. Thankfully, that has not happened.

Indeed the ONS stats show a high rate of pupil attendance (bearing in mind groups are sent home if in contact) and a tiny number of schools that have actually closed.

A DfE spokeswoman said: ‘Over 99% of schools have been open every week since term began, with over 7.3 million pupils attending last week

@Aragog - that makes sense to me. I know out DDs' primary school is being really careful about staff staying distanced, but within class there is no SD.

Teachers who cross bubbles must be at more risk.

I hope you're ok.

@Worriedmum999

There was a lady who posted about her son being in intensive care with Covid. A 7 year old with no underlying conditions.

This is what the treatment for covid looks like. My son is 7 - no underlying medical conditions. He is autistic though, which means because he attends a specialist school, he's expected to just remain in school no matter how many times he ends up like this in hospital. The blanket approach doesn't work for my little boy who's the size of a 13 year old. Clearly. Here's the treatment the nhs gave to him with grace, understanding and support.

20l oxygen - for 5 days straight, this was gradually lowered and he managed without it finally on the 6th day (Sat's (amount of oxygen saturated in the blood dropped to 84 minus even on 20l O2 ))

Salbutomol nebulisers hourly, this was gradually reduced after the first 48 hours.

Magnesium and Potassium through a syringe driver into his foot.

2 IV drips one in each hand.

Strong antibiotics
Strong steroids

Anti nausea medicines to protect his stomach lining and to stop him feeling sick and vomiting

Chest xray
Physio

Salbutomol inhaler and treatment plan administered for at home.

We may be the small percentage but the virus is catching in case we didn't know. My sons school had a case one week (Monday) in, I took him home the next day after reading about it in the news (with more info there than the letter we got!) he was hospitalised by blue light Friday afternoon. He nearly died. He was very close to being intubated.

Schools are not safe. Simple as that. They can fine me, throw me in prison - Gavlar and this government WILL be made accountable.

I will scream untill my last breath so that no one has to go through this. I've never been so scared in my whole life. Keep them safe!

That is so frightening, Worried mum, and I am sorry for you and your son - and others going through the same. I do hope he recovers soon, poor lad.

The virus is still very dangerous, we cannot afford to relax restrictions, however the government doesn't give clear guidelines and the way schools are dealt with is a mish mash.

OP I think you have fallen into the trap of 'it's not happening in my area, therefore it's not happening'. DH is head teacher of a primary school and via his network, knows of a school where every single staff in the canteen has tested positive within the last few days. Canteen shut, school staying open.

Some classes in that school have had only 10 days of actual teaching in school since September as they continually have new cases as soon as the members of the class keep on testing positive. Many, many teachers are off sick. You won't read about it in the press as it's usually covered in local press, not national.

By contrast, there has been only one case in my DH's school (4-form primary) and two cases in the school where my kids go (8-form entry secondary school).

Justajot - thank you. I'm getting there gradually. And yes, particularly as I'm clinically vulnerable, I did feel somewhat exposed. I did what I could to minimise the risk but ultimately it wasn't enough.

Ok op so if its not being surpressed you tell us where the data is on exactly how many schools had covid cases last week?

We have numbers of kids absent etc we have limited info on now covid and flu clusters (note highest clusters in schools). We know how many cases at most unis.

www.tes.com/news/nearly-half-secondaries-have-self-isolating-pupils

For the person that asked for some data:

The DfE said that it estimated 4 to 5 per cent of pupils in state-funded schools did not attend school for COVID-19 related reasons on Thursday 15 October.

This includes:

0.1 per cent of pupils with a confirmed case of coronavirus
0.5 per cent pupils with a suspected case of coronavirus
3.9- 4.3 per cent of pupils self-isolating due to potential contact with a case of coronavirus
0.2 per cent of pupils in schools closed for COVID-19 related reasons.

https://www.tes.com/news/Covid-dfe-cuts-schools-arent-high-risk-line-guidance

I don't think we're hearing the half of what is going on. The dfe have now quietly removed 'schools aren't high risk' line from guidance.

Nope. As a teacher with 10 cases in school and 2 in classes I teach I expect some protection for myself, my colleagues and students. If it's that simple let's abolish it for people working in all environments. Thought not.

@flumposie it really shouldn't be too much to ask.

The tight restrictions that people have to abide by in many other work places contrast sharply with what we get in school. The vets - have to hand over pet outside and wear a mask whilst doing it, the bank - 2 people allowed in only at a time. Door locked in between each customer to stop others coming in. The post office - socially distanced queue spaced out 2m and post worker begind a Perspex screen, the dentist - no waiting room, no card payments allowed (pay over phone) as it’s too dangerous, Perspex screen for receptionists. In school it feels like a free for all.

There is a thread where an ECV person is upset as they have to go beck to work in a non Covid safe workplace in a tier 3 area. There was some sympathy on there for that person (IMHO quite rightly so) although it was mixed. I bet if ther person was a member of school staff there would be cries of putting the children first and schools must stay open at all costs and you just want to stay at home on full pay.

@TiersTiersTiers

I think the return of children to school has gone far better than predicted. Many predicted mass school closures and huge numbers of deaths. Thankfully, that has not happened.

Indeed the ONS stats show a high rate of pupil attendance (bearing in mind groups are sent home if in contact) and a tiny number of schools that have actually closed.

A DfE spokeswoman said: ‘Over 99% of schools have been open every week since term began, with over 7.3 million pupils attending last week

Gavin is that you?

Over 99% of schools have been open every week since term began, with over 7.3 million pupils attending last week

But that's just because they aren't closing whole schools regardless of numbers. It's only a bubble at most, and it's over in many schools to only close contacts.

In some schools teachers are being told they can't be a close,contact because they should be SDing, even though in reality it's often not possible.

PHE took a very lax approach to my 'start of symptoms' date because they weren't the big 3 ones. I suspect this is the case in several situations.

The bigger picture is definitely not being told.

@RubyandBen

I'm convinced that if any teachers or school age DC were ill in hospital/dead it would be front page news.

Teacher from my school in hospital currently. 15 teachers out today either ill/testing/isolating and have been running a year group light for weeks. Hasn't made the local news (all in a tier 1 area by the way). Sure, only one example but I wouldn't be so confident as you seem to be.

In most cases (secondary) public health England seem to advise specific students and staff now rather than whole groups and I dont see why a school should be different from anywhere else.

If other close contacts need to isolate from outside school settings then so should identified staff and students.

If they abolish track and trace then at that point parents should get to make the choice.

@Cookiecrisps

You make a very good point. Why is it terrible to ask officer workers to sit in banks of five but okay to ask teaching staff to teach 33 squashed in adult sized teenagers for six hours a day in poorly ventilated, aging classrooms?

Because some parents don’t ever want to have to ask their kids to do anything hard or different. The resilience level amongst some people is dreadful and is actually very damaging to teens self esteem and skills. They are all perfectly capable of doing a bit at home but it takes practise. Getting them to practise this skill would be if long term benefit to them and to future employers. Even if it is a bit of a pain in the arse in long term.

I utterly despair at how much so many teens are babied and the low expectations that are laid upon them. They won’t rise to the challenge unless you set it and tell them that it’s possible. They will have steep and difficult learning curve once they leave school b

Absentees from school due to Covid related reasons are currently being identified on the register with an X. This means "non-compulsory school age absence." There used to be specific code stating the reason (illness due to Covid, shielding due to Covid). Those codes would contribute to data collection. X does not.
This is possible bnb lay why people persist with the notion that schools aren't suffering with Covid. The figures are being fudged.

You are being lied to about the size of the problem.

The virus is spreading fastest in older children and young people. They then transmit it to older people, eventually it gets to the elderly and causes more deaths. Hospitals are unable to treat other illnesses because they wont leave someone to die if they can be treated.

You're either a spadbot or wilfully deceiving yourself.

In our school, indoor areas have been designated as year group bases. These bases are used to prevent the year groups mixing at the start and end of the day and at break times. Each base is staffed by specific teachers. Decent chunks of time are spent in these bases. Limited assemblies take place in them etc. The kids have no social distancing in these bases (not big enough). Those teachers aren’t in the year group bubble, they still take other classes in the day. I found out on the grapevine that the teacher responsible for my DC‘a base tested positive a few days ago. I found it out via gossip because PHE don’t consider the kids in the base to be close contacts and the school have kept it secret which teacher was positive (although they told us it was someone). Nobody in my dc year group has been told to isolate or even informed of the potential risk. This teacher has been very close to children, inside, day after day. There is serious secrecy and suppression of info going on in order to keep schools open.

Why on earth would a poster lie about colleagues being ill? What could they possibly have to gain from that? It is how statistics work, most teachers posting don't seem to be saying they know any teachers ill with cv, so of course another poster will likely know many. Accusing them of lying is really not helping your case here.

PP I hope your colleagues recover fully and speedily

I agree. Send the close-contact kids home, but keep the rest of the bubble/year at school.