Does anyone think we will get a break for Christmas?

[november90]

It's been hinted that restrictions may ease for the holidays but does anyone actually believe it or do you think it's just a way to try and get people to stick down to the rules?

I live in Lancashire, in tier 3 and it seems absolutely nobody is paying attention to the rules! (Like to point out that me and my family are 🙈).

@cantkeepawayforever I meant to quote you in my last post.

@HotToCold

Your 5 year old has forgotten his grandad he hasnt seen since March?

@Yamashita40

Yes he says "oh remember when I used to have a grandad" when he walks past his house. He hasn't made any effort with phone calls etc. To be fair a 5 Yr old is unlikely to speak much on the phone or face time anyway.

And yes, from my friends, colleagues and family, most of them have had enough. Of course I'm going to know the opinions those closest to me more than any other group. My dad is literally the only person I know who is now following the rules to the letter. Hope that works out well for him.

End lockdown, only shield the vulnerable and let’s get on with our fucking normal lives before the economy collapses.

The 'othering' of the vulnerable is bizarre.

The vulnerable are your son's friend at school, your daughter's teacher, the nurse who would treat you in hospital, your neighbour, the parents of a child in your child's class, the husband of the celebrant you hope will take your wedding. We aren't invisible, end-of-life patients with no role in society, who can simply be sidelined with no impact on others....

My family are obeying the rules and planning how to help each other manage. We won’t be meeting for Christmas. I can do this for a LONG time to keep as many people alive as possible.

Guaranteed! The government will want our money.
Then be prepared to spend Feb/March 21 in lockdown once again! and most of summer etc

And yes, from my friends, colleagues and family, most of them have had enough.

I have had 'enough'. Everyone has had 'enough'. Sadly, the killing potential of the virus is in no whit depleted by my puny fedupness, so I have to keep on keeping on.

I think if restrictions are needed through the winter (which I think they will be ) lifting them over Christmas would be madness.

No one seems to believe it but the kind of mixing we do in homes with close friends and family is what's spreading this thing, much more so than in schools, or shops, or pubs, on public transport etc etc

The fact that so many people seem to have decided they won't be taking any notice is really scary.

@cantkeepawayforever when the average age of someone who dies of covid in the uk is 83 with underlying health conditions I’d question your idea of ‘vulnerable’. Yes the hypothetical people you mentioned may catch it but the likelihood is the would be ok, just like they would be if they caught the flu virus.

@Itisbetter

My family are obeying the rules and planning how to help each other manage. We won’t be meeting for Christmas. I can do this for a LONG time to keep as many people alive as possible.

Exactly.

I have seen my elderly parents once since March (after 2 weeks of strict quarantine - I was teaching in school from the start of June, so an obvious disease vector).

I do not expect to see them again this year, in fact probably not until next summer in the absence of vaccination, as it is the next break long enough to keep quarantine.

DS is at university, and we do not expect to see him again until next spring - he has no wish to infect us, as we are much more vulnerable than he is.

We will 'meet' on Zoom, we will phone, we will send letters, we will laugh and cry. And one day we will meet again.

I think Boris will call a Christmas Day truce and agree to look the other way, assuming it's not apocalyptic with the hospitals.. The whole holidays though? No, won't happen.

[quote Bluemooninmyeyes1]@cantkeepawayforever when the average age of someone who dies of covid in the uk is 83 with underlying health conditions I’d question your idea of ‘vulnerable’. Yes the hypothetical people you mentioned may catch it but the likelihood is the would be ok, just like they would be if they caught the flu virus.[/quote]
Ah yes, the power of the mythic 'average'.

Sadly, the 'average' still contains within it many who are not 83; who have severe underlying conditions (cystic fibrosis; heart disease; diabetes; severe immune deficiencies) that have led them to fall victim to Covid.

None of the people I mention are hypothetical.

Sadly, I think the rules would mean you cannot mix households for Christmas. I do hope they are allow bubbles with people living on their own and vulnerable, but not sure...

Lots of the over 70 people at my Gym have no intention of locking down
they want to get on with their lives

Lockdowns are not working

the focus should be on handing ALL control for track and trace to local councils and labs

@cantkeepawayforever

The statistical variation with COVID deaths is actually not high. There have only been 307 deaths of people under 65 with no underlying conditions.

Many more will have died from road traffic accidents.

Fuck sake it would be ridiculous to “give us a break”

Is the virus going to take a break? No it won’t

Absolute shit show after Christmas and we will be back in lockdown in January for ages as a result of everyone mixing for one bloody day! So stupid

I decided ages ago to not go to my families for Christmas it’s not worth the risk - crap - but what can you do

The 'othering' of the vulnerable is bizarre.

The vulnerable are your son's friend at school, your daughter's teacher, the nurse who would treat you in hospital, your neighbour, the parents of a child in your child's class, the husband of the celebrant you hope will take your wedding. We aren't invisible, end-of-life patients with no role in society, who can simply be sidelined with no impact on others....

This.

@cantkeepawayforever so does the flu virus. Do you think everyone should go into shielding every winter?

You can argue against the science as much as you like but the likelihood is unless you’re over 80 with underlying health conditions you will be ok. I was reading an article just yesterday basically saying that some scientists are now advocating for herd immunity as the damage being done to society and the economy as a result of the government response is more damaging than the virus itself.

Lockdown is not sustainable, as much as you want it to be.

[quote Ecosse]@cantkeepawayforever

The statistical variation with COVID deaths is actually not high. There have only been 307 deaths of people under 65 with no underlying conditions.

Many more will have died from road traffic accidents.[/quote]
I think you have misunderstood me.

The examples I was thinking of were all people who are vulnerable BECAUSE OF THEIR UNDERLYING CONDITIONS - that is what I understand the term 'vulnerable' to mean.

How many people of 65 or below have died who HAD underlying conditions?

Or is it that those who are saying 'lock up the vulnerable and let us get on with our lives' REALLY mean 'No, we will also deny that ANYONE is truly vulnerable EXCEPT the extremely old and economically inactive, so there is no need to accept any compromise whatever in our everyday lives'? (A bit like the Government does with extremely medically vulnerable teachers - 'Schools are safe so tough, no PPE for you'.)

What is so special about Christmas anyway? Is it the lights, the presents, the midwinter thing, nostalgia, family or what?

I know I am probably alone in thinking this, so brickbats this way and will take it on the chin lol, but Christmas in the past was wonderful.

I doubt it can be re created in Covid times with confidence though. Stick to your bubble and enjoy as best you can. It's no different to yesterday really.

You can argue against the science as much as you like but the likelihood is unless you’re over 80 with underlying health conditions you will be ok.

There are an awful lot of grieving families who might say that 'likelihood' is not much good when you have lost a younger relative, who turned out to have a health vulnerability....

Allowing thousands of students to travel throughout the country to university was stupid.

Families meeting at Christmas can't be any worse.

@Coffeecak3

Allowing thousands of students to travel throughout the country to university was stupid. Families meeting at Christmas can't be any worse.

To be fair, locking students up in fairly low-age controlled environments (halls of residence) with extremely good disease transmission was a pretty quick way of upping herd immunity amongst those most likely to have mild illness and with very little contact with high-risk groups in the surrounding community...

Safer than sending children to schools from which they return home to older relatives every night....

I very much doubt there will be restrictions lifted for Christmas especially as there were restrictions for Eid.

[I appreciate this is a pretty cynical view of a very difficult time for many students. And is also more an unintended consequence than a plan, obviously]

Im sure the new Gogglebox Celebrity Special will go down well with most places on some sort of restrictions now.