Sweden seeing much smaller increase in cases compared to rest of Europe

[SussexDeb]

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

No massive surge like in France, Spain, UK and Netherlands.

More and more it looks like Sweden has taken the right approach with limited restrictions. Avoiding fatigue among the public around the measures and making sure good hygiene is practiced.

@TheKeatingFive

www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

This one.

Any comments, sweetie?

Yes. Get help.

Yes. Get help.

So no you don’t. Good to clear that one up.

One for the road.

Here's another article for you to not read, intentionally misread, or send in 'response' a bunch of miscellaneous figures:

time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

There are a lot of articles published by the ‘why we can’t admit Sweden wasn’t a total disaster’ crew. And there’s a lot to consider I get that.

However, why can’t we get a response to the following objective fact (not subjective article).

Sweden did not lockdown like every other European country.

Instead of the Armageddon anticipated, as of this moment, they have some of the lowest cases per 100,000 in Europe and an absolutely tiny percentage of deaths in the last 14 days, lower even than the much praised Germany.

We can’t take a step back and simply consider that fact? What it might mean for our assumptions? Have a conversation about it?

Why not?

Watching with interest TheKeatingFive

Don’t hold your breath.

So you didn't read it. Not even the first paragraph, which is pretty telling.

You want a discussion on Sweden's approach? Did you miss the first 35 hundred of them?! There's a been a pause in the constant references to Sweden's approach, which was a relief. I don't think right now is the best time to be extolling the marvellous results in Sweden.

I'll leave you two or three geniuses to ignore the facts, and 'discuss' your fantasies of utopia in a time of Covid.

Oh, sorry, forgot my passive-aggressive emoji insertion...

It’s the refusal to even discuss it and to shut down every conversation about Sweden that is frustrating.

They have gone out on a limb and down something completely different. It should be discussed and analysed

I had read it before actually.

No one is saying that Sweden made no mistakes or they bowled a perfect game.

They’re saying ‘look where they are right now’. Especially compared to those countries that locked down harshly and then opened up. Sweden are now in a position of pretty low comparative case rates and very low recent deaths.

What does that tell us about the medium to long term efficacy of lockdown?

It should be discussed and analysed

Oh you are allowed to discuss it. But only if you conclude it’s a total disaster (utterly ignoring what’s going on now in terms of case rates and deaths).

Slightly off the Sweden topic but just a question for those citing Spain , France and other EU countries experiencing a huge surge in cases post lockdown, as examples of lockdowns not working.
They all opened up early, went for life as normal and welcomed tourists, and now...boof.

Do any of you think that allowing unrestricted travel without compulsory ( and enforced) quarantine might have something to do with that?

In threads about Sweden, someone will generally point out that their death rates are much higher than their neighbours Norway and Finland. But frustratingly the discussion about Norway and Finland always seems to end there. Does anyone know how Norway or Finland are doing? And if they are doing well overall, what measures have their governments taken?

Norway and Finland continue to have some if the lowest rates of both cases and deaths per 100,000 in Europe.

No I don't know hie they're doing it. But as Norway is a pretty close comparator for Sweden, I think it has to be a model that's worth investigating. Yes I think it would be worth learning from. They've been doing markedly better for many weeks now.

Sweden used to be doing somewhat better than Denmark, but now similar in case numbers (still better on deaths)

Based on currently published ECDC data (dated yesterday) countries with lower per 100,000 cases are: Germany, Greece, Norway, Finland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia. Lower/same deaths per 100,000 are: Norway, Finland, Cyprus and Liechtenstein.

(Wild theorising warning: I've been wondering also how much is by chance. The virus is not mutating, but there are at least two variants, and there are some very small,changes (that allow tracking of spread, confirmation of second infection etc). And perhaps also make slight differences to readiness of spread and seriousness of illness produced)

Norway and Finland had lockdowns, and Sweden didn't, basically. This old article says:

Sweden’s Nordic neighbours Norway and Finland approached the virus differently, and it could be why they’re facing just a fraction of COVID-19-related deaths.

Norway went into lockdown in mid-March, closing schools, restaurants, cultural events, gyms, and tourist attractions. It also banned outside travellers. Finland, which has been stockpiling medical supplies since the Cold War, restricted border traffic, banned gatherings of 10 or more people, and closed schools as part of its coronavirus guidelines.

www.businessinsider.com.au/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

Thinking of the current situation rather than 7 months ago, btw.

Norway is the richest country in the world basically.

State of the art health care, sick leave policies, support packages, elderly care

Money helps.

Sweden, so poor!

Sweden, with roughly double the population of Norway, and also of Finland:

108,969 confirmed cases. 5,930 dead.
Norway 17,234 conf. cases. 279 dead.
Finland 14,255 conf. cases. 351 dead.

Who said Sweden was poor? I said that Norway, with the oil money, is probably the richest country in the world.

Anyway, let’s say it again. Sweden, has currently one of the lowest rates in Europe. Let’s compare that with current rate of some of the big European countries that did lock down. And have a conversation.

Oh wait, we can’t.

Perhaps then we should be looking to Germany - 8x the population of Sweden but only 3x the number of cases and only 2x the number of deaths?

(Case rate currently lower, as of yesterday, death rate higher but was lower about a week ago)

Also Sweden’s current 14 day death rate is the same as Finland’sz

I'm sure I read that Sweden changed its testing criteria at some point so now mild & asymptotic cases aren't counted in the R number. Is this the same for other countries?

I don’t think the secret of Germany’s success is very controversial. Strong leadership, great healthcare, good support.

But even at all that, Sweden’s current death rate is lower.

I'm sure I read that Sweden changed its testing criteria at some point so now mild & asymptotic cases aren't counted in the R number.

If that’s true, and I have no idea, that would have interesting implications for the point of other countries recording those cases.

Sweden’s death rate is super low right now so it’s not fudging the numbers to make themselves look better.

Sweden’s death rate is super low right now so it’s not fudging the numbers to make themselves look better.

Who said they were?

Who said they were?

Just batting off the inevitable, coming down the line.