Sweden seeing much smaller increase in cases compared to rest of Europe

[SussexDeb]

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

No massive surge like in France, Spain, UK and Netherlands.

More and more it looks like Sweden has taken the right approach with limited restrictions. Avoiding fatigue among the public around the measures and making sure good hygiene is practiced.

Sweden basically followed much of the standard WHO influenza Pandemic playbook.

Other countries doing full lockdowns were really doing it off the cuff. This wasn't necessarily a terrible thing as it does have its good points as well as bad, but it wasn't something that had been considered in the past.

Why do we think just because countries have different population densities and healthcare systems that we have nothing to learn from them about this disease and how it plays out? Why do we shut down every discussion about Sweden with no discussion?

Because if we admit to ourselves that the Swedish approach had at least as good an outcome as our own, we have to entertain the idea that that the enormous sacrifices of Lockdown weren’t necessarily worth it.

Sunk cost fallacy. It’s very difficult to move on from.

You’re entirely right though.

I think it's way past time to drop the Sweden fantasy.

www.news.com.au/world/europe/swedish-approach-to-fighting-covid19-takes-a-turn-as-cases-spike/news-story/f6a717f462db065dcb0be94dee5292b9#itm=newscomau%7Cnews%7Cright-now-in-%7C0%7CSweden%20COVID-19%3A%20Cities%20locked%20down%20as%20coronavirus%20cases%20spi...%7Cindex%7Cworld&itmt=1603374818320

That doesn’t look like anything like as bad as a lot of other European countries, but we do get the memo.

Must. Shut. All. Sweden. Conversation. Down

Unless it’s to say how utterly shit Sweden had been, natch.

What about Spain by the way? Strictest lockdown in the Western world and has now reached 1 million cases.

I think the bigger fantasy is that somehow track and trace will magically start working if we lockdown for 2-3 weeks, despite not having worked in Germany, France or Spain.

It only really worked when implemented right at the start in nations already setup with comprehensive systems, and with easy to control border.

The point about Sweden is that once you've had that initial spread, whatever you do you end up with the same end result, lockdown or not. Just look at the Czechs. They famously celebrated beating the virus in July, thanks to their early and harsh lockdown: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53244688

Now look at their cases and deaths!

@TheKeatingFive

That doesn’t look like anything like as bad as a lot of other European countries, but we do get the memo.

Must. Shut. All. Sweden. Conversation. Down

Unless it’s to say how utterly shit Sweden had been, natch.

What about Spain by the way? Strictest lockdown in the Western world and has now reached 1 million cases.

We're literally having a conversation about it.

As we speak.

Far from shutting it down we have joined in, and made a contribution.

So do stop playing the victim card, there's a love.

The contribution was essentially ‘drop sweden’

😂

Anyway. Those figures are a lot lower than many other European numbers. Thoughts on that? No one said Sweden had zero Covid or anything close.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Current rates per 100,000 in Sweden are pretty low comparatively.

isn't it simply that pretty much all northern European countries are seeing a rise (small or large) in covid 19 - and related coronaviruses - because we're now into autumn and getting close to winter.

Lockdown. No lockdown. Part lockdown. Doesn't really matter, the virus will behave the same way as every other virus. Why are people surprised?

Sweden didn’t lock down, didn’t close primary schools, didn’t close bats and restaurants and doesn’t recommend masks..

Spain had the strictest lockdown. Children couldn’t go outside! And now look at the situation there.

The Sweden example is helpful when discussing whether lockdowns work or are helpful. The WHO doesn’t recommend lockdowns.

I agree about contact tracing . Once you get to ridiculously high cases it becomes impossible. It really is something to do early on along with lots of testing.

@TheKeatingFive

The contribution was essentially ‘drop sweden’

😂

Anyway. Those figures are a lot lower than many other European numbers. Thoughts on that? No one said Sweden had zero Covid or anything close.

They had the most deaths since the famous famine 150 years ago.

And their numbers are so bad they are comparable with ours.

@Delatron

Sweden didn’t lock down, didn’t close primary schools, didn’t close bats and restaurants and doesn’t recommend masks..

Spain had the strictest lockdown. Children couldn’t go outside! And now look at the situation there.

The Sweden example is helpful when discussing whether lockdowns work or are helpful. The WHO doesn’t recommend lockdowns.

I agree about contact tracing . Once you get to ridiculously high cases it becomes impossible. It really is something to do early on along with lots of testing.

Test Trace and Isolate is something to do any time you want to get Covid under control.

It's easier when you have low cases, such as the U.K. had in January and February, June, July, and August.

Lockdowns can be used to reduce cases while you build up TTI capacity and the WHO approve them for this use.

They do not approve them as a replacement for the basic but vital public health measure of TTI.

Until we have adequate TTI and/or a vaccine this chaos will continue.

And their numbers are so bad they are comparable with ours.

And we locked down and they didn’t!

Did you look at their current rates per 100,000? Food for thought huh?

Doesn't really matter, the virus will behave the same way as every other virus. Why are people surprised?

Says someone who clearly knows very very little about viruses.

@TheKeatingFive

The contribution was essentially ‘drop sweden’

😂

Anyway. Those figures are a lot lower than many other European numbers. Thoughts on that? No one said Sweden had zero Covid or anything close.

No, the contribution - referring to the title of the thread - was to say, actually not so much, now.

It is cute that you are able to see things there in a brighter light than Anders Tegnell.

No, the contribution - referring to the title of the thread - was to say, actually not so much, now.

If you looked at the link you’d see that they still compare very favourably, but you seem unwilling to even open it.

Now, I wonder why 🤔

I just can't understand why everyone is so reluctant to accept that immunity is playing a part in slowing growth compared to last January- March. Why is this constantly being ignored or disputed?

Yes! And the EFFORT people go to, in order to pretend Sweden isn't relevant or what's happening should be ignored. In any other circumstances we'd at least say "ooh, that's quite interesting, I wonder what it tells us?" But no. It's weird.

From people I know who a) regularly travel their and b) have relatives over there, the reason why it’s working is because are listening and abiding by the rules.
That would never work here because so many flout them / look for loopholes / plain ignore. Just look at the recent ‘f you boris I’m not abiding by T3 regulations’. People went overboard when lockdown was relaxed in the summer. That was our chance to show we could ‘do it’ on relaxation. But unfortunately people got complacent and carried on like normal.

I do wonder about the unwillingness to admit the following.

Sweden did not lock down and instead of the Armageddon predicted by many are now in a pretty decent position, compared to most of Europe.

Particularly compared to countries with very harsh lockdowns where cases are now sky rocketing.

What will break, I wonder, if people allow themselves to acknowledge that?

People went overboard when lockdown was relaxed in the summer.

Yes, of course they did. You coop people up for months on end and that’s a very natural human reaction.

What Sweden understood, right from the start, was if you focus on measures that are maintainable, over months and months, you avoid that huge sense of rehearse, going nuts and the sharp increases that inevitably follow that.

Spain did the exact opposite and look where they are now.

Sense of release

Yes! And the EFFORT people go to, in order to pretend Sweden isn't relevant or what's happening should be ignored. In any other circumstances we'd at least say "ooh, that's quite interesting, I wonder what it tells us?" But no. It's weird.

It is weird, but it’s also totally predictable in that lockdown was an enormous price to pay and people just aren’t able to acknowledge that it didn’t make much difference in the longer term. They’ll do anything to push away that thought.

@TheKeatingFive

No, the contribution - referring to the title of the thread - was to say, actually not so much, now.

If you looked at the link you’d see that they still compare very favourably, but you seem unwilling to even open it.

Now, I wonder why 🤔

Sweetie, I posted that article. What a bizarre assertion. Of course I read it. But congrats on the great collection of passive aggressive emojis!

www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

This one.

Any comments, sweetie?

@TheKeatingFive

I do wonder about the unwillingness to admit the following.

Sweden did not lock down and instead of the Armageddon predicted by many are now in a pretty decent position, compared to most of Europe.

Particularly compared to countries with very harsh lockdowns where cases are now sky rocketing.

What will break, I wonder, if people allow themselves to acknowledge that?

People will never admit it, as it means admitting they are not quite as clever as they thought they were. Plus I think it's a hallmark of not very bright people to be quite dogmatic about issues and unwilling to shift standpoint, even when all the available evidence suggest you might have got things wrong.