Women in France being forced to wear masks during labour

[Aprild25]

Just saw this. Really gave me the rage.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8834045/amp/Women-France-felt-like-suffocating-forced-wear-face-masks-childbirth.html

@Dollywilde

Worth pointing out that epidurals aren’t perfect. Mine wore off and the top up failed, so I had 3 days of latent labour, 10 hours of active labour with an epidural, and then 2 hours of birthing, episiotomy and eventually forceps with no pain relief

I’d have just ripped a mask off tbh, I wanted to die by the end of it. Worth it, but a mask would not have been on my face unless someone was holding it on me with force.

My epidural wore off too with my first labour. All 3 of mine have been over 24 hours, two ended up in ventouse and my birth in may ended up in forceps. All back to back babies too. No way would I be tolerating a mask!!

There is a whole movement about denouncing gynaecological violence in France at the moment and I think that's how the issue of masks was raised. The testimonies are absolutely horrendous, especially because women in France tend to see a gynaecologist routinely from a young age, and it seems there are plenty of them who shouldn't not be practising.

I'm from Northern Italy, the most 'fancy'/alternative birthing options I've heard of are birthing balls to bounce on/being allowed to stand up.

A friend in Spain also got a birthing ball at the private hospital but not at the state hospital.

That’s really interesting malaguena, because on MN we only really hear about French gynaecology in terms of their apparently excellent pelvic floor physio as part of post-natal care. I guess the interventionist approach cuts both ways.

I gave birth in France 6 weeks ago. I chose to give birth without an epidural, preferring to rely on hypnobirthing techniques. I was able to use a birthing ball and other aids, but no pool. I laboured a lot of the time at home without a mask obviously. When my waters broke we went to the clinic masked up ( I have a triple layered cloth mask I use) and I was 7 cm when I arrived. For the rest of the labour and the expulsion I wore a mask. Finished with a forceps delivery and episiotomy all with no pain relief but still masked. All in all I was in for 5 hours.

Honestly? It was absolutely fine. I could breathe throughout (doing my my hypnobirthing breathing) and to be honest I forgot it was on most of the time. I have to admit I was more focused on my contractions than what I had on my face. I appreciate not all women will be the same, but it really wasn't an issue for me and I didn't have a completely straightforward birth either. So in my view it's manageable. And I didn't miss having gas and air either. The forceps bit wasn't super fun, but it was relatively short right at the end.

And certainly I can see that in the pushing phase when you are breathing very heavily, I can understand the midwives preferring you to be wearing a mask as the risk of aerosols is very high.

And I can confirm that in my experience (which is not everyone's experience I know), the French system for pregnancy is pretty excellent. I had monthly face to face appointments with my gynaecologist throughout my pregnancy on top of my 3 scans despite the pandemic. Then 8 antenatal sessions with my midwife.

During the birth, the team did what they could to ensure I had the natural birth I wanted, which I did until the final push. Unfortunately baby was stuck right at the end, hence the forceps, but it was only because I was so tired after being in labour for over 24 hours and I really couldn't push any more.

Post birth, I stayed for 5 days ( but could stay as long as I wanted) I had a private room and bathroom and the post natal care was excellent. I had a midwife check in on me twice a day to check me over and ask if I needed anything medication wise. Then we had nursery staff who came in every day to show us/ supervise us in how to do the bath, nappy changes, caring for the umbilical cord and so on. I could also get someone in at any time of day or night to help with breastfeeding, check the latch, help with different breastfeeding positions and any other advice needed.

I also had 3 home visits in the first week from my midwife to check all was good.

I had my 6 week appointment with my gynaecologist and got my 10 sessions of perineal re-education prescribed which I will be starting next week. So all in all, if the counterpart to all that was wearing a mask during labour, for me it was definitely worth it.

@abigailwendover

So in France, Spain, Portugal etc where they don't offer gas and air is the choice literally epidural or nothing? Or are things like pethidine and remifentanil available? What about alternative comfort measures - like tens machines, water, hypnobirthing - does anyone know if they are commonly used or do most women go for an epidural?

Both of my grandchildren were born at home in Germany.

The midwives have nothing stronger than paracetamol to offer as pain relief! You can have a birthing pool though.

I should add that, overall, my experience of pregnancy and birth in Spain (pre-Covid) was good (although I don't have experience of it in any other country, so I have nothing to compare it to). Apart from some nurses who were mean to me

What about the choking risk if the woman vomits with a mask on and can't take it off quick enough? Not to mention the the fact that it's absolutely inhumane. People aren't wearing masks to run marathons or go to the gym. A woman is trying really hard to breathe in the same way but I guess it's just an issue that affects women so....

@kersh33 exactly the same for me, I'm so happy to have given birth outside of the UK and if we have a second I will certainly not be doing it back on the UK. I'd rather wear a facemask than give birth through the NHS sharing a ward with 5 -7 other women and being chucked out 24 hours later...

@abigailwendover I gave birth in a European country and we were not offered any pain medication or gas and air. They don't believe it's safe for the baby. But fully supportive of water, balls, Hypno, walking around etc. And of course epidural.

Some women in the UK have no idea how impressive maternity ealthcare can be in other European countries... Monthly scans and check ups with the Dr of your choosing (not random midwives who you won't see when you give birth), private rooms, allowed to stay on for 5 days, consultation with an anesthetist to discuss the risks, how it works and book them in if you think you might like one when the time comes so they know to be available, ped visits to your. Private room to check on the baby and sign off to go home, midwives showing you how to bathe baby, feed baby, care for baby. Then a midwife who can visit you at home weekly for up to 6 weeks..

@abigailwendover

So in France, Spain, Portugal etc where they don't offer gas and air is the choice literally epidural or nothing? Or are things like pethidine and remifentanil available? What about alternative comfort measures - like tens machines, water, hypnobirthing - does anyone know if they are commonly used or do most women go for an epidural?

In Belgium it's epidural or nothing. No pethidine. I do know somebody who was offered a brown paper bag...

Tens machines aren't common at all. I did have one of my own and the midwives were fine with me having it but the doctors scoffed at it.

I was allowed in a bath for pain relief but was told it was absolutely forbidden to deliver in the water. That had to be lying down on the bed. I found it all very bizarre after learning all about being active and upright during birth with my first.

I was allowed in a bath for pain relief but was told it was absolutely forbidden to deliver in the water. That had to be lying down on the bed. I found it all very bizarre after learning all about being active and upright during birth with my first.

Certainly does sound very bizarre! A lot of friends in England have ended up giving birth on their back but that tends to be for clinical reasons rather than just cos it's a blanket rule. That can only be for the convenience of caregivers surely? Hope you had a positive birth experience anyway.

Some women in the UK have no idea how impressive maternity ealthcare can be in other European countries... Monthly scans and check ups with the Dr of your choosing (not random midwives who you won't see when you give birth), private rooms, allowed to stay on for 5 days, consultation with an anesthetist to discuss the risks, how it works and book them in if you think you might like one when the time comes so they know to be available, ped visits to your. Private room to check on the baby and sign off to go home, midwives showing you how to bathe baby, feed baby, care for baby. Then a midwife who can visit you at home weekly for up to 6 weeks..

I actually don't think (from my experience) the antenatal and birth care is too bad in England. We could do better with continuity of care in terms of midwives but I don't think a low risk woman needs to see a doctor or have monthly scans - she's pregnant, not ill. Where we do go wrong is during the postnatal period. Lack of staffing on postnatal wards means women who've had caesareans or difficult deliveries left to fend for themselves, no access to physios, patchy support for breastfeeding etc.

The UK has higher rates of still births than many other European countries though, so I think the more interventionist approach is helpful in that way.

Anecdotally, I know more English women that have had birth injuries than European friends (but I know lots more English women and go on mumsnet so they aren't even samples)

Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent. I don't agree with masks on in labour either.

I don't think a low risk woman needs to see a doctor or have monthly scans - she's pregnant, not ill.
This attitude is fine if all goes well. However, there's a small number of low risk women who will develop serious complications. I was one of them during my first pregnancy - low risk, and yet I developed a severe complication within days which wouldn't have been picked up without regular scans, I was completely asymptomatic.
Other countries don't offer monthly scans for fun, there are many good reasons to do so.
Having given birth abroad, I think maternity care in the UK is pretty grim. Of course it's better than elsewhere, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a lot better though!

Gas and air is not an option in France - when I mentioned it during my appointment with the anaesthetist to discuss having an epidural he thought it was a hilarious suggestion - “Like your Queen Victoria!”. I had an epidural because that’s what was on offer (when in Rome and all that) and it was fabulous. Personally I think wearing a mask would be the least of your worries when in labour, my experience with a French epidural was that it was a lovely, calm experience (I even had a little snooze). I’d rather give birth in France in a mask than in an NHS hospital without one any day.

I don't think a low risk woman needs to see a doctor or have monthly scans - she's pregnant, not ill

It's not about the mother it's continuous monitoring of the baby to make sure they're ok and nothing is missed.

I've never felt so reassured, it was amazing and I felt bad when my uk friends who were pregnant at the same time got no check ups other than the midwife running blood tests on them and finding a heart beat with the Doppler.

In Japan, there is no pain relief other than a few hospitals that offer epidurals. Women are expected to silently bear the pain. Shocked that women are still treated like this in 2020.

@Hardbackwriter have you ever worn the said ‘better PPE’?

It’s stifling and painful and leaves pressure sores on faces and is far far more uncomfortable than the masks being worn universally.
In normal circumstances aside from Covid I’d have taken in a bottle of water for when I’m providing 1:1 care for hours at a time, but Covid means I can’t do that.

It’s really really hard asking the labouring woman and the partner I am caring for to wear a mask (until at least we have a swab result back) and goes against the compassion ingrained into me as a midwife - but I also have to think of myself, my unborn baby, the other patients on the unit and society as a whole.
I might be coaching a woman through deep breathing, with or without entonox or panting during crowning or whatever else. We can’t keep 1 metre + apart during this time, certainly not 2 metres.

It’s a drop in the ocean but we have to go some way to slow the spread..

@JeanieInABottle thank you for doing an incredible job you deserve the most protection available, even if that means labouring mum's wearing a mask x

Dovegrey

Maybe she should wait until her delivery to care for labouring mums. Having to wear a mask while in labour is just cruel.

It’s already an anxiety-inducing time and not being able to breathe properly while in immense pain will surely make it worse.

You've really got to wonder where this is all going. The mass erosion of civil liberties for a virus that kills about 0.5% of people who catch it (if that).

Awful! I thought this was a joke but sadly it isn’t

They'd have needed a huge supply when I gave birth as I was vomiting the entirety of the 3 day labour.

You can breathe properly wearing the normal surgical masks.
You can.
Not comfortable I admit but there is no evidence that I’m aware of that to suggest they are unsafe to wear.
I don’t like wearing them, I don’t like the families I care for wearing them as it can be such a barrier to communication and comfort - but we have to consider the bigger picture in this.
If a woman I am caring for is using entonox for analgesia, eating or drinking or as been mentioned feeling nauseous guidance states she can remove that mask and for a short glimpse of time, I really appreciate being able to read that lady’s face for emotion, relief etc and as part of her body language.

I am one tiny member of an already very depleted work force - take me out of my job and there’s one less midwife out there to provide care. Aside from my own pregnancy, why do my colleagues and friends across nursing and midwifery not deserve safety and protection ?

The masks we wear as staff are protecting our patients (in the context of healthcare and PPE - very aware that pregnancy and labour doesn’t necessarily make a woman ‘a patient’ ) from exposure to pathogens we may carrying - but what is protecting us?
Patients can and do decline swabs and to wear PPE - but they have to be informed of the potential implications on their care it can have - us as staff needing to prepare and wear different PPE, potential delays in responding to emergencies, further limitations and restrictions to having birth partners with them in theatres etc. And again, to think of the bigger picture - the other patients in hospitals and the bigger picture still - the impact on the spread in our society as a whole.

@DoveGreylove thank you, it means the world.