Women in France being forced to wear masks during labour

[Aprild25]

Just saw this. Really gave me the rage.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8834045/amp/Women-France-felt-like-suffocating-forced-wear-face-masks-childbirth.html

Lol I couldn't even bear to have clothes on in the final stages of labour. I dont think I could wear a mask either. I mean, what are they going to do if the woman rips it off? Leave her to give birth unattended? Doubt it.

well if she is able to give birth alone fine no mask, but surely the staff assisting her have the right to be safe?

If there was a two tier system and you could choose for you and your new born to be treated by people who had only attended women in masks or ones who attended multiple unmasked births a week which would you choose? Which would be safer for mother, infant, and midwife?

Having read a lot of threads were women recount what they did under the influence of gas and air, I do not think that it is altogether a good idea to use it. It does not seem to be helping with birth but distracting from it.

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

Having read a lot of threads were women recount what they did under the influence of gas and air, I do not think that it is altogether a good idea to use it. It does not seem to be helping with birth but distracting from it.

Only someone who has never given birth could suggest that a conscious woman could be distracted from the process.

I cant believe some people think this is okay. A flimsy surgical mask on a woman who is heavily exhaling and actively encouraged to breathe deeply, who might also be screaming is not protecting anyone!

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

Having read a lot of threads were women recount what they did under the influence of gas and air, I do not think that it is altogether a good idea to use it. It does not seem to be helping with birth but distracting from it.

Distract from giving birth! I’m not sure that’s possible. When it’s time to push its time to push, you can’t stop it. Unconscious women can give can birth.the effects of gas and air are out of your system almost immediately.

Saskia
2 children in a birthhouse with midwives no painrelief whatsoever
and I had to pay for it
hospital would have been payed for by health insurance

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

Having read a lot of threads were women recount what they did under the influence of gas and air, I do not think that it is altogether a good idea to use it. It does not seem to be helping with birth but distracting from it.

Yeah,..it doesn’t work like that.

It takes the edge off during early labour but once those pains really start, it does bugger all apart from making you feel slightly high, and that wears off quickly.

And agree with those who says when it’s time to push you can’t stop it

I wasn’t fully dilated, the midwife was telling me NOT to push, but I genuinely couldn’t stop myself.

It was uncontrollable

So in France, Spain, Portugal etc where they don't offer gas and air is the choice literally epidural or nothing? Or are things like pethidine and remifentanil available? What about alternative comfort measures - like tens machines, water, hypnobirthing - does anyone know if they are commonly used or do most women go for an epidural?

@Itisbetter

If there was a two tier system and you could choose for you and your new born to be treated by people who had only attended women in masks or ones who attended multiple unmasked births a week which would you choose? Which would be safer for mother, infant, and midwife?

I'd choose the system where the midwife is given full and proper PPE? If they're relying on labouring women to wear thin masks then that's not only an unreasonable ask of the woman it's also an unreasonable risk for the midwife because the odds of that mask being worn perfectly throughout are low.

Incidentally, times where France doesn't insist on masks because it's impractical: when cycling, running or when sat down in a restaurant. Do you really think that giving birth is a less physically demanding activity than cycling or that the comfort of women in labour is less important than being able to eat in a café?

In Italy it's generally nothing or a C-section.
Birth is heavily medicalised. Pregnancy is pretty much a 9mth illness. Epidurals are there, but you tend to have to go through the above hoops to get one. And they aren't free usually.

Obviously, that's a generalisation, and things may be different in some areas/specific hospitals.

Remember this is a country where you have to sign forms saying your children have had the obligatory vaccinations or they can't go to school.

I've never heard of anyone (in my personal sphere) who's had a home birth.

You do realise that many countries, e.g. Germany, required women in labour to wear masks since around May? It is very loosely enforced but gives midwifes - who might be vulnerable themselves - the option to demand it.

Found an article from July of this year, from the Italian society of neonatal care. 0.05% approx of births are "outside hospitals" and the article written by the head of the society strongly advised against it.

In 2018 in the north of Italy approx 20% had epidurals but estimates of 10% in the south because they aren't widely available.

Do you really think that giving birth is a less physically demanding activity than cycling or that the comfort of women in labour is less important than being able to eat in a café? No I think the safety of a woman in labour is more important and in that situation in an enclosed space with a midwife who must go on to treat others the safest plan would probably be for both labouring woman and midwife to wear masks etc. How have you missed that these women are at greater risk and that heavy breathing in enclosed spaces is how this is passed?

@abigailwendover

So in France, Spain, Portugal etc where they don't offer gas and air is the choice literally epidural or nothing? Or are things like pethidine and remifentanil available? What about alternative comfort measures - like tens machines, water, hypnobirthing - does anyone know if they are commonly used or do most women go for an epidural?

When I gave birth in Spain, the only thing I was offered was the epidural. Nothing else was discussed or suggested to me (not even antenatal classes beforehand). Perhaps if I had been native I would have known how to access these things another way, but I knew that they don't offer gas and air there so I just went with the epidural.

@Itisbetter

Do you really think that giving birth is a less physically demanding activity than cycling or that the comfort of women in labour is less important than being able to eat in a café? No I think the safety of a woman in labour is more important and in that situation in an enclosed space with a midwife who must go on to treat others the safest plan would probably be for both labouring woman and midwife to wear masks etc. How have you missed that these women are at greater risk and that heavy breathing in enclosed spaces is how this is passed?

I note you conveniently just ignored the rest of my post where I said that the obvious solution is for midwives to wear better PPE!

I gave birth in a European country where G&A isn't available, there are various other options though, starting from paracetamol right down to epidurals. The NHS loves G&A because it's cheap. It's just a symptom of the underfunding of the NHS in general, and maternity services in particular.

I agree that having to wear a mask during labour is barbaric and unnecessary. The labouring woman isn't the one who should cover her face, the staff should be wearing PPE!

Gas and air is not a thing in the US.
Most just go ahead and have epidurals (likewise, and concept of being refused an epidural just doesn’t happen).

As it happened, I was refused an epidural and only had gas and air. Talk about barbaric! The gas and air did absolutely nothing but make me vomit. Still makes me angry to think about it. My family back home were flabbergasted about the way it went down (and the lack of private rooms!!!! Wtf!!!!!)

If I was told to wear a mask on top of all that I probably would have broke something.

Unfortunately, the simple fact of the fear surrounding coronavirus is already making women fearful and anxious while they are due to give birth. Any additional worries or concerns during labour take us out of that relaxed state we need to give birth easily and with manageable pain and into the fight or flight mode which prevent the right muscles from relaxing and contacting to help the baby out. Masks add to this and yes, we should be doing everything we can in the labour ward to make birth as stress free as possible despite the coronavirus risks. I know that it is difficult for hospital staff to work under these circumstances too.

As for the gas and air, yes, not routinely used outside of the UK, Australia, Canada and Finland and it is not without risk to those who are routinely exposed to it, ie midwives. The irony of midwives developing fertility issues due to the fact that they care for labouring women must be very painful indeed. The reasons why are down to tradition and common practice rather than any evidence or research.

Aren’t c-sections more common in France as well?

Worth pointing out that epidurals aren’t perfect. Mine wore off and the top up failed, so I had 3 days of latent labour, 10 hours of active labour with an epidural, and then 2 hours of birthing, episiotomy and eventually forceps with no pain relief

I’d have just ripped a mask off tbh, I wanted to die by the end of it. Worth it, but a mask would not have been on my face unless someone was holding it on me with force.

@raskolnikova thanks for the reply - really interesting to hear how things are done differently elsewhere.

Luckily for us, the NHS stance is masks don’t have to be worn by women in labour.