The sooner people follow the rules the quicker we'll get rid of Coronavirus...

[Marcellemouse]

I've heard 2 different people say this in the past few days. What do they mean? Do people really think Coronavirus will just disappear altogether if we get the numbers low enough?

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince
No one I’ve spoken to has any desire for this. No one. The WHO has just said that herd immunity is immoral and unethical
Maybe the people you've spoken to daren't say it to you. Nearly everyone I know is starting to think like this.

The principles of reducing social contacts, and avoiding crowded indoor spaces are sound.

But we have to avoid destroying the economy, and mental health.

Lockdown deprives us of our humanity. I do not laude totalitarian China where people self censor any thought that is remotely anti-government. Many of those pesky mask-exempt people have additional needs that would have had them dumped in an institution exist, forgotten about, not actively live within society.

Many of our rules are contradictory. Last week I could go and sit 2 feet away from elderly DM in a busy cafe, but I wasn't supposed to sit 2m+ away in her lounge.
I can go for a drink with 5 other friends in the pub. But the substantially lower risk activity of taking two families of 4 for a walk is illegal.

I abide by the principles of seeing less people, keeping my space and trying to do what I can outside, but I'm not going to slavishly follow rules that do more harm than good.

Ultimately we have to live with this virus, as we live with other contagious killers like flu despite the vaccine of variable efficacy.

Today it's illegal to have a friend in my garden, tomorrow I can have a hot tub party!

We have lost sight of principals as every little detail of our life is being legislated for.

@pennylane83

People need to realise that Covid will never be eradicated - it is in circulation across the globe and is now just another illness alongside flu, chicken pox etc that we will be susceptible to catching.

So with that in mind, is this life now, for the rest of forever one week we're in lockdown then out of lockdown, never being allowed to meet up in a group bigger than 6, every couple of months being banned from mixing with other households/family members, gyms closed, gyms opened again, everything shut at 10pm, kids in and out of school.....

or do we need to start coming to terms with living with this virus and the sad fact that, yes, people are going to die from it. Perhaps what would be more useful to us is for the government to spend the £billions they have found down the back of sofa on getting the NHS into a position to never be overwhelmed, have the best treatment available and to be world beating so that everyone can get on with their lives - that is what is going to help us through this.

Exactly what I was going to say.

[quote RollaCola84]@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince - how do you think vaccines work ???[/quote]
Herd immunity via vaccine is a completely different animal to achieving it by letting the virus circulate freely.

What I don't understand is the utter naivety of people who say they have had enough now and don't want any restrictions. Don't they realise that life will be no “fun” either if we have no restrictions? Hundreds of thousands/millions of people all getting ill around the same time will create a lot of very unpleasant issues.

I think the whole subject has now gone the way of Brexit, with views polarised. But at least we could try to unite in holding the government to account for the way it has mishandled this crisis, instead of arguing with each other.

I hate these comparisons with China. Their human rights record is abysmal. The idea that people would want this country to replicate that sort of totalitarian behaviour is scarier to me than Covid

Yes to this! This is a country which is literally committing genocide right now. It reminds me of the widespread tendency of people living in democracies in the 1930s to argue that at least Hitler cut unemployment or whatever.

When I hear "The Science" all I hear now is "The Word", as though invoked by an 18th century minister urging the religious conformity which will "keep us all safe".

I'm not doing thing which in evidence based terms are the equivalent of crossing myself - feel good but not physically effective in "keeping us all safe".

I'm done too. It's a load of nonsense mixed in with smatterings of common sense.

Yesss of course herd immunity via vaccines work.

Rollacola l agree with everything you say. And yes we have a fiercely divided nation again. The whole thing is a nightmare. My point about herd immunity was to all those who were saying no restrictions anymore.

Look at Brazil for evidence of that.

Penny lane and Dressingown, no it may not be eradicated. But most people will catch it in childhood where it will be much less dangerous. It is still too dangerous at the moment to be left to run amok.

Marcellemouse-yeah right... you know all my friends and colleagues of course🙄

Your post is a joke. Obviously you are party to all our long discussions. Maybe your friends are lying to you🤷🏼‍♀️

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

Well it near enough did in China and Vietnam. Proper enforcement of rules and am amazing lack of "hidden disabilities" preventing people wearing masks. It's amazing how many people think it is too difficult to control the virus. China Vietnam Japan and new Zealand are all in the winner's circle. Where the population followed the instructions. Whereas in the UK we can't even get the population to wear masks properly without people grumbling about government intrusion. In China do you recon the students would have been allowed to attend those parties? Would people be openly slagging off the chief medical officer? Probably be no on both accounts. Western individualism of me first will make this difficult to control.

These are all pointless examples, because they're all countries who for varying reasons haven't got to the stage we're at now. None of them have a situation where it's endemic in some parts of the population, as we do here. That means they don't tell us anything about how to proceed now.

Whereas some of the rules appear contradictory eg previous local lockdown you could meet in a pub but not a garden (now changed). Surely the principle that the less non-essential contact we have with people means that there is less chance of it spreading and cases rising ?

Not saying this will get rid of it altogether but keeping cases low so that NHS not overwhelmed and business and services remain open as much as possible

I did not know Vietnam was so populous. They seem to have precious few old people, too.

@Berline

Is the three tier plan law or just guidance? Can we expect another Dominic Cummings-type incident of 'you clowns, this wasn't even law (MY interpretation of what happened with infamous rose garden conference). All the press are making this out to be actual law and, of course, it's not in the government's interests to inform us otherwise. I ask because the degradation of civil liberties angers me. Am I a bolshie goader who just wants to party? No. Or socialise with ten friends? No. I do, however, find the notion of a person unable to visit a lone elderly relative upsetting because of smoke and mirrors.

Even in the very high tier support bubbles for the vulnerable and childcare under 14 is still allowed as long as the bubble remains consistent, so as long as you only see that lone elderly relative and no other household you can see them as much as you like within any setting indoors or outdoors. Im in tier 3 and that has been confirmed today by our local council.

I still don’t know what the end game is. Restrictions forever? How can that possibly be less bad than just living with the virus?! It’s incomprehensible.

I'm curious as to what people think will happen if we were to just let the virus travel unchecked through society.

Would lots of people being poorly at the same time mean that businesses struggle to keep going anyway?

Honestly just want the schools to stay open!

Would lots of people being poorly at the same time mean that businesses struggle to keep going anyway?

You'd get to an end point faster.

@3littlewords - is that it, do we all just choose one person each and then never get near to another person ever again ? Its the lack of end game that terrifies me.

I'm in tier 3 and I have to chose between my partner and my parents (again). How the fuck is anyone supposed to do that.

@MaxNormal

Would lots of people being poorly at the same time mean that businesses struggle to keep going anyway?

You'd get to an end point faster.

What end point do you mean? Tens of thousands more people dead and businesses ruined or do you mean herd immunity?

bibbitybobbitycats I mean you'd get to the end of the pandemic more quickly if you didn't suppress the spread.

These sort of people tend to be control freaks ime.

They truly believe they can control and eliminate the virus by their actions

It's a truly frustrating thing.

@MaxNormal

bibbitybobbitycats I mean you'd get to the end of the pandemic more quickly if you didn't suppress the spread.

Yes, I know you meant the end of the pandemic, but I wondered how you woudl define the end - is it when reach herd immunity (at a terrible cost unless a vaccine is found) or something else?

Well we don't know how much immunity a person gets from having it the first time around, so it's hard to work out where the endpoint is.

Sorry for typos.