Would the schools problem be solved by masks

[notevenat20]

If all secondary school children wore masks all day and we only then sent home people who sat next to them at lunch if they got covid, would that solve most of the covid schools problem?

It's exactly what they do in France.

Oh yes let's wear the things all day every day in all situations because they are working so well. Look at France. They do not work and I honestly think make the whole thing worse.

We need less bodies in a room so we can distance in a classroom.

We need less bodies in school so we can reduce mixing, especially at social times.

We need less bodies in school so the buses aren't crammed full every morning.

We need the blended learning like we suggested months ago. We've just had another year group go off for the second time. As a school we've had more than 20 positive tests now, with one evidence of spreading in school with kids in the same class testing positive sequentially.

Which is better for mental health for those spouting that as a reason for no measures? Blended learning or frequent disruptions, ill class mates/family or knowing you have a teacher in hospital?

What’s needed is to make schools covid secure. As it stands at the moment they are clearly not, however much the government and like say they are. Mask wearing is part of this but need to know how to wear them correctly-many adults don’t. Second, classes contain too many people and need to be at least half the size. Third as there is no mass testing in schools (as far as I’m aware) how do you know covid isn’t spreading in school? Many of the pupils could present so mildly or asymptomatic but still pass between them and take the virus home with them. So mass testing of schools is needed too. Fourth, proper ventilation.

Without other things masks can only doing so much. Whole bubbles shouldn’t be stopped being sent home because of a non medical mask, only if 2m+ has been maintained throughout. I was an advocate of the part time/distance learning debate (secondary schools, colleges and unis) to allow SD, who knows where we’d be if that side had won? Dare I say a better place!

It's the norm in Asia, and it works there.

There is plenty of evidence about efficacy of masks (including milder version of disease, as for thus one there appears to be a link between infective dose and severity - look at sickness patterns in HCPs)

Ventilation is about airflow within the room, dissipating the virus more rapidly. It's an entirely separate to masks.

I don't know if it works,secondary school kids here in Ireland wear masks in class and there has been some cases still...not loads but some.

@Walkaround there were 6 months to try snd work out how to offer home learning for specific groups. But your attitude is very ‘can’t do’ which, in a global crisis is very strange. New innovative albeit imperfect ideas are our way out if this, not replicating the norm. Maybe it wouldn’t be perfect but it would have been worth exploring and may have provided solutions for some.

'Covid secure' is a meaningless phrase.

@SunshineCake - such evidence-free positivity. If mask wearing is to become compulsory for all, better guidance on appropriate masks and mask care is needed, a public refutation of the WHO advice earlier in the pandemic that masks not only may not be helpful but may actually cause more harm than good, and better publication of the scientific evidence. An epidemic of skin infections is not welcome.

@Hollyhead - we have seen Boris Johnsons’s positivity fail to match up to reality. My children are absolutely fine learning online from home. The relentless negativity of the British people show that most families did not find that to be the case. Your idea of positivity is just unrealistic and you ought to know that.

We need less bodies in a room so we can distance in a classroom.We need less bodies in school so we can reduce mixing, especially at social times.We need less bodies in school so the buses aren't crammed full every morning.

Fewer? (Sorry)

The exam algorithm was another imperfect idea that was explored. And teacher assessment. And The Oak National Academy. The fact is, none of it is as good as being taught properly by a teacher who knows you well - ie your own teacher. On top of that is the safeguarding, social and wellbeing element, and on top of that the babysitting element. Why do you think every idea got trashed apart from pretending we can go back to normal, @Hollyhead?

[quote Walkaround]@SunshineCake - such evidence-free positivity. If mask wearing is to become compulsory for all, better guidance on appropriate masks and mask care is needed, a public refutation of the WHO advice earlier in the pandemic that masks not only may not be helpful but may actually cause more harm than good, and better publication of the scientific evidence. An epidemic of skin infections is not welcome.[/quote]
I've been into school. I've seen the students.

@notevenat20

Sorry, I've only just woken up. Didnt get to bwd ubtil 1am and my brain is mush today!

Fewer. We need fewer everything.

we have seen Boris Johnsons’s positivity fail to match up to reality. My children are absolutely fine learning online from home.

Are you also working full time?

@SunshineCake - I am in school every day. I see the students...

@notevenat20 and masks are working really well aren't they.

So well that since they were made mandatory the infection rate has gone up. Amazing.

Actually @Walkaround they were all just ideas that were hurried out, ideas take refinement over time to become useful.

Not that strange algorithm though, that was always destined for failure but then I’d have kept A levels on, and only done teacher assessment for gcse, which I’d have had awarding bodies moderate.

@notevenat20 - yes, I am. My children are old enough to get on with their work without me babysitting them, so I was alright, Jack... I’m not stupid enough to think that just because I am OK with a situation that it must work for everyone, though. I’m also not stupid enough to think that telling everyone to wear masks is going to solve the schools conundrum. Whatever is done, the reality is underfunded schools will be expected to provide more and more for less and less and then everyone will complain that it’s not good enough, and it will leave the disadvantaged further and further behind.

So well that since they were made mandatory the infection rate has gone up. Amazing.

The problem with snippets of sarcasm is that it can be hard to tell exactly what is being criticised.

Assuming you mean to say that overall cases have gone up in France despite their beings compulsory masks in schools, this is true. But also not really the point. The question is if there is extra risk from the French schools policy over the British policy. Because if there isn’t, the advantages for children and parents (mostly mothers) are huge.

@Hollyhead - ideas can only be refined if they have consistent political support and are properly financed.

If all secondary school children wore masks all day and we only then sent home people who sat next to them at lunch if they got covid, would that solve most of the covid schools problem?

Surely you mean ‘only send home people they sprawled all over, tackled on the football field, rolled around with on the grass, sat on, crowded up next to in the canteen, shared a PE changing room with, shared their water bottle/lip gel, hairbrush with?’

There is no social distancing in secondary schools. Teenagers cannot seem to keep their hands off each other.

Some also find it impossible to bring a mask to school to wear in communal areas. Won’t wear one and ‘pretend’ to use the sanitising stations by rubbing their unsanitised, dry hands together as they enter the room.

You really want to send home only the person they sat nicely with at lunch? 😂😂😂

We have to assume it would make a difference. Research has suggested wearing a mask can half rates of infection. Why would all medical staff be wearing them if this were not so. In many places in Asia where it’s the cultural norm, such as Hong Kong, transmission rates are low. I don’t quite know why we are all complaining about it so much. BUT they need to be worn correctly and consistently, that’s the problem.

I’m also not stupid enough to think that telling everyone to wear masks is going to solve the schools conundrum. Whatever is done, the reality is underfunded schools will be expected to provide more and more for less and less and then everyone will complain that it’s not good enough, and it will leave the disadvantaged further and further behind.

Despite the satisfaction I get from completing my MN insults bingo card, I don’t agree with some of this. The point of my question was that in France they have solved the problem of intermittent schooling by using masks. I should also add that it is the disadvantaged who suffer most when school isn’t full time.

@Lolaloveslemonade

I don’t think it’s the case that British teenagers are uniquely feral. All the attributes you describe must be true for teenagers in the rest of Europe too.

@notevenat20 - but they have not “solved” that problem by using masks, they have “solved” it by sending fewer children home. There is no evidence whatsoever that they have “solved” it any other way - or at least, apparently none that you have been able to find for us.