Would the schools problem be solved by masks

[notevenat20]

If all secondary school children wore masks all day and we only then sent home people who sat next to them at lunch if they got covid, would that solve most of the covid schools problem?

It's exactly what they do in France.

"Kids and teens won't wear masks properly. They just won't, with the best will in the world (and many won't even have that). They will fiddle with them and touch them all the time and then touch everything else, they will pull them down to breathe, they will rewear them for days"

As if adults don't do all of t

*this

@LeanishMachine yes they are catching it from each other, they are also spreading it to the adults that work in the schools and they are all then spreading it to their families. Of course they are catching it from each other.

I don't think so.

The packaging they come in often clearly states that they do not act as a protection against Coronavirus and/or are not recommended for protection against illness.

So I don't see how they would help, really. Maybe a small improvement, I don't know.

Yes it definitely works!

@tempnamechange98765

All I hear from secondary school teachers that I know is that staff aren't social distancing in schools. In my county the cases in schools aren't spreading AT school, and any that do it's among the adults.

This isn't pointing blame at teachers as it must be very hard to maintain 2m social distance from colleagues when in a classroom you might have a teacher, several TAs etc.

Biggest rise in positive cases aged 10-19

Yes and no.

It would certainly help to a degree but... They ideally need fresh masks through out the day, micro management on not touching them.

Ideally all given fresh disposal masks before each lesson with hand gel then supervision throwing them away, hand gel and then given fresh.

Along with open windows etc.

However, blended learning for secondary is the way forward right now, thin out classes altogether. Have proper sd in them.

The other considerations would be more break times outside where they can remove them.. It's actually hard work wearing one for a length of time.

@ShinyGreenElephant

Kids and teens won't wear masks properly. They just won't, with the best will in the world (and many won't even have that). They will fiddle with them and touch them all the time and then touch everything else, they will pull them down to breathe, they will rewear them for days. Its not going to work and would have a terrible effect on learning and behaviour. What schools need is much smaller class sizes and bigger, well ventilated classrooms. Plus the obvious- testing being widely and conveniently available. But the government wouldn't dream of spending a penny on the plebs kids while their little darlings are safely in private schools.

Some might be like that but not all.

My kids are teenagers and wear masks correctly, change often, don't fiddle and take the whole thing seriously.

@SunshineCake - my experience is that your children are in the minority. It might be taken more seriously if it became compulsory for all, all the time, than, eg, compulsory only in corridors, but quite frankly, with all-day mask wearing, you are guaranteed that more children/teenagers than not will be wearing dirty masks that should have been changed ages ago, storing used masks inappropriately and thus contaminating and being contaminated by everything they touch, and touching their masks and faces regularly throughout the day.

I think there has also been an increase in cases of young people with impetigo since mask wearing became a requirement in most places indoors. It’s not as if teenagers don’t already have more spots and bacteria on their faces than average!

It is true that cases are generally rising in France, as in Britain. But the big difference is that parents don’t live with the constant expectation that their child will be sent home for two weeks. This means they (and mostly this means us women in practice) can get on with their careers and lives.

Pointless waste of time, haven’t we fucked over our kids mental health already let’s not pile on some more misery for them!!!

I agree with it not being good for their mental Health,
But, masks are not a pointless waste of time 🙄

We need to.look to countries doing well, so not France.

We need distancing.

Everyone can't jump up and down about how we can't tachieve that, but your choice is distancing+ventilation, or the virus spreading.

Masks help, but can't mitigate enough to let you sit next to someone in a windowless room for 6hrs without risk.

We need to.look to countries doing well, so not France.

It’s a nice idea but with a fatal flaw. Countries doing much better than us are so different we can’t copy them. S. Korea for example has the machinery of a high tech police state (despite being a freedom loving democracy). You can check online the full journeys of everyone who is infected, the state mandates they be able to track you, the police knock on your door to ensure people are complying (eg if you just back from abroad) etc. We don’t want to become S. Korean.

Germans are well organised collectively , with a huge domestic diagnostics industry that we don’t have. We can’t become German

But we can ask children to wear masks in school.

@notevenat20 - why would you want to do something that isn’t proving to be effective in the country referenced, and which could increase the risk of serious skin conditions in an age of antibiotic resistance, just so that you can have a temporary excuse to get on with your life (until it is shown to be as ineffective here at reducing cases as in France)?

I would like to know the long term impact of mask wearing on mental health, empathy, child development, building relationships and communication skills. Obviously we can't know this yet, as far as I know it hasn't been been studied. If someone does know of any studies I would love to read them. I do wear a mask when I have to but I do think the long term effects of mask wearing haven't been considered and I believe the more compulsory mask wearing is becoming the more it is going to fuck up our children's future. (yes covid may also fuck it up too, I don't have the answers). We are starting to know the risks of covid, we don't yet know the impact of mask wearing (plus seeing others wear masks) and social distancing on development for children and teenagers.

I think masks during lessons would be better than nothing. All the angst about them not being worn properly can be mitigated by good hand hygiene. If they’re on and catching droplets that’s the main thing. And, there’s evidence although they may not prevent transmission, they can reduce the amount of viral load.

The other thing I’d do with secondary schools is allow people who are vulnerable to be home educated and also allow teachers who were in the ecv category and shielding to run this education - probably on a LA basis to ensure enough teachers of each type. Not only would it help with protection but it would help thin out schools.

I also think schools should have abandoned sets for yr 7-8, and taught in tutor groups which would have kept some bubbles smaller.

@notevenat20 I didn't say I wanted Korean approach to sharing details.

We could distance, that is what I believe we should and could copy from other countries. We could also have public health track and trace instead of the serco shambles.

Many parents don't want distancing in schools to due to the fact it means part time or different hours for older pupils.

I'm not going to go on at length about it, I think part time with distancing would be better, others disagree. The people who disagree won the argument, we now have out of control transmission.

I'm fine if my kids get asked to wear a mask full time, I just think we need distancing.

Masks need to be used properly to be effective, as part of general behaviour change, not as some miracle cure. If more people are to be expected to wear them more of the time, then FAR more needs to be done by Government to convince people that the scientific evidence on mask-wearing has changed fundamentally from the days of the WHO advising against it, so that now only a minority of scientists are saying they don’t help and may even put people more at risk (assuming this is the case). Far more publicity also needs to be given on how to use a mask properly and the risks of not using one properly - because countries that use masks successfully also do a lot of other things successfully at the same time, but we seem to want to miss those other bits out, as though they are not relevant to the success, but the mask wearing alone definitely is.

why would you want to do something that isn’t proving to be effective in the country referenced, and which could increase the risk of serious skin conditions in an age of antibiotic resistance, just so that you can have a temporary excuse to get on with your life (until it is shown to be as ineffective here at reducing cases as in France)?

Unfortunately, if everyone waited for proof of effectiveness then no country would take any steps to save itself. The best we can do is do what seems to work. In France it does seem that the spread within schools is no worse than here and it has the massive advantages I listed earlier.

We are starting to know the risks of covid, we don't yet know the impact of mask wearing (plus seeing others wear masks) and social distancing on development for children and teenagers.

I completely agree. I am not even sure we know the short term impact unless someone has done a study?

No children should not be forced to wear masks. They should remain optional so people can wear them if they want to. There is no reason why in the uk they couldn’t just send home children sitting next to the person with covid rather than whole class. Although in secondary this is likely to be 20 or so students as they will be next to different people in different lessons. I also think there should be the option for students to be linked up to classes electronically if they are isolating.
France and Spain have high numbers so we should not be copying them.
We should look at what Germany and Scandinavian countries are doing

In France it does seem that the spread within schools is no worse than here

This is hardly a ringing endorsement.

The virus is getting out of control in both countries, the UK is simply a bit behind France timewise.