How can it be illegal to see a member of family? Even from 2m+? Even with a mask? What is this world

[Napqueen1234]

High risk area so likely to be tier three. In this modern world how can it be illegal to see any family for months and months on end. It’s cruel and unfair and completely unsustainable.

amusedtodeath1 what you've posted is utter scare mongering. This is a virus where up to 80% of infections are asymptomatic.
I reckon we can keep the lights on this winter even with a bit of granny visiting.

@Funkypolar

People are going to get fed up sooner or later and we shall see mass civil disobedience. Tick tock.

I do hope so! I'd join in.

I suspect the civil disobedience will be sneaking into family members houses and while I have followed the rules so far I will almost certainly be joining that category over winter.

Interestingly, here in France, it turned out that the government does not have the right to prevent or restrict gatherings in private homes. It’s against the Constitution. So here, if you have a large enough house, you can invite as many people over as you want - family, friends - and the government cannot prevent you.

Recently they have started putting more pressure on people to voluntarily limit their private, social contacts - but that’s all they can do.

So one answer to your question is: get the British Parliament to approve a Constitution that protects the rights of citizens and does not allow govt into the private sphere in this way.

Having said that, between the schools and unis going back in the way they have, the reluctance to WFH, the reduction of the isolation period from 14 to 7 days and the inability to prevent gatherings in private homes, our numbers are a bit out of hand : 26k new cases yesterday, a post lockdown record!

I totally agree with you OP. I can’t take much more either. My husband and I are self employed and I want to scream at people begging for lockdowns. If we can’t work, we don’t earn which has hugely worrying impacts such as a threat to our home. I notice most people who love a lockdown are those that will be paid regardless..

Like you, I literally can’t believe that in 2020 it is illegal to see family. Over a virus with an average age of death of 82. We never worried about sickness bugs or the flu etc etc that always kill the elderly or vulnerable. But people have been made to worry about only one risk - Covid.

I find it terrifying how with a bit of state sponsored media terror, how the masses will comply and be so nasty to each other as well. What have we come to!

Isn’t the way round this to see family under the guise of working.... hear me out on this...

One of you a teacher? You’re providing tuition to the other.

One of you can hold a pair of scissors? You’re a freelance hairdresser to the other.

Would this work?!!

@Purpler5 I am a qualified HCP and my parents are HCP also perhaps we could label it a conference?

[quote Napqueen1234]@Purpler5 I am a qualified HCP and my parents are HCP also perhaps we could label it a conference?[/quote]
Yep! You’re getting the gist of this

What makes you think it will be months and months? It could very well be just a few weeks whilst the infection numbers have chance to drop again.

The fact that it has already been months. These are the restrictions we've been living under in the north west since July

The govt bases its measures on deeply flawed science instead of following the maths.

They put in place increased restrictions as a response to increased numbers of positive test results. They forget that if you test more (which they do increasingly) you'll inevitably find more. If people with mild symptoms didn't get tested and self isolated (as we were told to do during the first months of lockdown) then positive results would decrease.

It’s ridiculous. We stick to the rules in the first lockdown, went months without seeing family and friends and stuck to the rules during summer. We will Stick to the main rules now, social distancing and masks, but will not go back to not seeing family again, no matter what the rules are.

@lazylinguist it isn't really the same is it? You choosing to live 250 miles from family isn't the same as it being illegal to see family.

The reason isn't the same, but the outcome is.

You know what shocks and scares me the most? Those who say 'just stick to the rules and we will get through this faster'.

Wrong. So, so wrong.

The old rules didnt work. The new rules wont work. We went into lockdown and cases went down, but naturally the minute we all left our houses the cases rose and here we are. All we did was postpone the inevitable. The only way rules work is if we all sit in our sitting rooms for the next 2 years, until we ALL get a vaccine, that's assuming a decent one is actually developed. If not, we could be sitting there forever. You ok with years and years of genuine lockdown?

With the new rules, transmission statistics shown on news sites 2 days ago clearly showed that schools, universities and workplaces were responsible for over 60% of new transmission rates. Seeing family was maximum 11% but in that 11% is also unknown source of transmission and international travel. They were all bunged in together. Hospitality counted for 4% of transmissions. Yet we are only shutting hospitality and stopping people seeing family.

Therefore, new rules are a waste of time. We will follow them like the well behaved sheep we are and they wont fix anything, the same as all the local lockdowns have just resulted in huge rises of numbers.

But people will bleat the same thing; 'just follow the rules', like little brainwashed clones, without any searching out of FACTUAL information for themselves. They just do what they are told and shout at others who have the gall to stop for a second and think. The level of ignorant compliance and blind faith in a government is terrifying.

I tend to agree with the earlier poster who suspected masks may be increasing the spread. Countries that imposed strict mask-wearing early on - France, Spain, etc are seeing a huge spike in numbers.

Prior to having to wear a mask, people kept a distance, now they don't. Masks are filthy - most people don't wash them after every wear.

bum I feel exactly the same as you. Powerless to act. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. Covid is real. But the level of incompetence is terrifying.

That was me fernie

I guess there needs to be a distinction between medical grade masks and what we are using.

I’m basing this on my mum who “feels safer” wearing a mask and so is carrying on. She is 76 and well but I do worry a little when she goes in my sister’s house, wearing a mask. My sister is a HCP.

What I don’t know if it masks are giving people falsely security and they do a little or nothing or if they increase transmission

@amusedtodeath1 I'm sorry but you're completely scaremongering and what you are saying is simply not true. March/ April was awful. So many infections (remember they weren't mass testing so infections much higher than stated) and a very high death rate.
Guess what? We still had water, we still had electric, we still had food. Please stop spouting false information.
The only reason they are imposing these rules is to minimise the stress on the NHS. Things have increased since schools went back and universities. They aren't closing schools so they are now going to tell people they can't see family. It won't make a difference!
This virus is here now, we aren't going to get rid of it. If they wanted to do that then they should have shut the borders early on like New Zealand did. But they didn't. So we have to live with it.
In case you hadn't seen, cases are rising but death rate is still relatively low.

It would have been cheaper to hire 10,000 extra nurses and doctors than the cost of this shit on the economy. But no, we want it to crawl along at a sustainable number for the inadequate amount of HCP we currently have. Billions this has cost and it will cost more billions if they don't look at the macro economics and see that they're paying out for the wrong things. Hire extra medical staff and let it move through the population at a faster rate so that this shit show can end to fuck. Ain't nobody got time for this shit anymore.

@FernieB

The govt bases its measures on deeply flawed science instead of following the maths.

They put in place increased restrictions as a response to increased numbers of positive test results. They forget that if you test more (which they do increasingly) you'll inevitably find more. If people with mild symptoms didn't get tested and self isolated (as we were told to do during the first months of lockdown) then positive results would decrease.

Does this explain the doubling of ICU patients within the last week?

@Dancingwithdaftness

It would have been cheaper to hire 10,000 extra nurses and doctors than the cost of this shit on the economy. But no, we want it to crawl along at a sustainable number for the inadequate amount of HCP we currently have. Billions this has cost and it will cost more billions if they don't look at the macro economics and see that they're paying out for the wrong things. Hire extra medical staff and let it move through the population at a faster rate so that this shit show can end to fuck. Ain't nobody got time for this shit anymore.

You can’t train medical staff in a matter of days. This is the whole point. The health service will collapse if herd immunity is attempted. There will be too many sick Covid patients and no capacity to treat anything else.

There will be too many sick Covid patients and no capacity to treat anything else.

They bloody aren't treating anything else.

Down here the NHS may as well be renamed to the National Covid Service.

I think if you and your family are well it is manageable but if you have a family member who has terminal cancer, mental health issues etc it is unsustainable and counter productive.

@Sitt your grandmother doesn't have to be alone. She can bubble with a family and see others outside. Unless she is in a nursing home in which case my hearts for her

@yawnsvillex I'm so bloody sorry.

I didn't see my mum for the first six weeks. Then my doctor advised me to, for my mental health.
I would carry on seeing her, whatever the government said.

I am in S Wales and we have what are essentially tier three restrictions in place - no mixing of households in any indoor setting, can't leave our area.

It is hard, it really is. But as a pp said, what would happen if we had no restrictions and the infection rate starts to run out of control? Yes most people will survive, but it's what happens when you have thousands and thousands of people infected at the same time in a particular area and unable to go to work because they are too ill or because they are having to self-isolate .

Remember the panic buying - what would happen if lots of shops in an area had to shut because of lack of staff, no deliveries available, no click and collect. There would be chaos.

Added to that, if infection rates were high, no-one would go out unless they had to. People wouldn’t be flocking to the pubs etc. That would fuck the economy too.

We have to be realistic, whatever path we take is going to be hard and cause suffering and damage to the economy. The fact that governments all over the world are following similar courses of action suggests that this is the least worst option. But if anyone can set out a better option, I would love to know what that is!