Transmission rates of the virus in primary schools??

[Sb2012]

What do you think the transmission rate is like amongst primary school children? When schools reopened I was convinced there would be lots of primary school children off within weeks with the virus, however it seems like it’s secondary schools that have the most cases.
I am in the north east where cases are very high. Both mine go to different primary schools and in my 10 year olds school there have been 2 children (siblings) who have tested positive so far and 3 members of staff. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence to suggest the staff passed on the virus to the 2 students it appears they contracted the virus out of school
My 8 year olds school has had at least 8 cases, but amongst staff only.
Then I have a primary school aged niece and in her school there have been no cases amongst students only 1 staff member.
Our local secondary schools have a lot more positive cases amongst students and there has been evidence of transmission in peer groups too.
What are the primary schools like where you live? Do you think primary school kids are not passing the virus on as fast as older kids?

Because in primary schools we keep the kids in one classroom, with their own playtimes, they eat in their bubble etc. In secondary all the kids mix. It's utter chaos in the ones I work in. They're in contact with everyone around the school whether they mean to be or not. It's two totally different set ups.

It is really difficult to keep students seperate in high school. We are a very big school but still limited on space, so it is impossible to keep them completely separate. Add to that kids who won't follow any instructions and rules, to the point where we are having to give fixed term exclusions to students repeatedly and purposefully mixing year groups and harassing staff and refusing to wear masks in comon arwas. Weve had some parebts kick off, but we've had multiple bubble closures and obvious spread (positive tests sequentially through a few year groups).

If we had space/less students in we could keep them at a much safer distance. I really hope there is some kind of blended learning for the older age groups so we can maintain some stability.

Those typos are terrible. Sorry

We thought about this before sending my DS (aged 4) to kindergarten.

Where people have contact traced, the transmission rate in children younger than about 9/10 years of age appears to be dramatically lower than in older children and adults. Perhaps 10 times less.

As such, it’s unlikely that children will pass the virus between households because the virus would need to go through two kids (parents to kid 1, kid 1 to kid 2, kid 2 to parents).

Primary schools are smaller and easier to keep the kids apart with staggered start times and staggered playtimes.

It's working really well at DS's primary, there has been one positive case in a pupil. None in staff members.

The secondary school seems like chaos to me, when I take DS to school we go past the secondary and all the kids are congregating together all over the pavement. Then they all gather together after school ends.

Inspite of little ones being such flibberty gibbets it's easier to keep them under control.
Keep them in bubbles and separate. Although bubbles are a placebo.

I did read ages ago that young dc however can hold huge viral loads in their nose, same as an adult on icu. So it's the exposure issues of adults around them that's the worry there.
In secondary.... Well... Bubbles of hundreds, all mixing at other pinch points, same in colleges!

As everyone has said, primaries are much easier to contain as bubbles actually mean something. However, we have no idea of transmission rates in either primary or secondary due to a)the number of asymptomatic young people and b)the general impossibility of getting a test.

I work in primary and have seen children come to school with a hirers of symptoms which I feel could actually be covid. Fatigue, sore throats, stomach pains, diarrhoea (promptly sent home) headaches coughs that are assumed to be part of the cold symptoms they have etc. They don’t get tested as they aren’t presenting with the symptoms required for the test. They are well again with in a week and only mix within the same group of 30. As staff we keep our distance as much as possible. No scientific proof but in my opinion many of the children probably have it or have had it 🤷‍♀️

My kids’ primary school has had no confirmed cases so far. The local secondary has had a fair few - but every time I go to the town centre late afternoon there’s always scores of kids in secondary school uniform sitting right next to each other & messing about, with no masks or distancing or anything. I’m surprised the secondary hasn’t had more cases.

@Megala they won’t be distancing outside school because they aren’t required to in school. I can’t for the life of me see how it’s safe for them to sit touching and share spaces all day every day then suddenly scandalises people when they sit!walk together in the fresh air.

If they’re not distancing in school then I would hope it’s because they physically can’t. Outside of school they physically can.
The more close contact, the more risk of exposure and transmission, so surely it makes sense to minimise close contact where it is reasonable to?

It’s obviously not ‘safe’ for them to sit next to each other in school - but obviously it’s been deemed their education is more important than that risk.

The ones I’m seeing outside of school are all huddled together, touching - ie if one had head lice, they probably all do now, kind of close!

My DD has Covid. It looked exactly like a cold. No coughing at all.

Half the primary school has colds, no testing as they don't have Covid symptoms. Given that DD, DH and I all have it, the weird vomiting bug DS had a week ago was probably it too. I think primary age children present atypically or asymptomatically so we probably don't know so easily that children have it.

@GunsAndShips that’s what I find so hard to stomach. The majority of the children in my bubble have had ‘a cold’ yet we just carry on regardless with assumption that it’s nothing more. I guess until an adult falls ill we will just carry on developing herd immunity.

@whatsleep

I work in primary and have seen children come to school with a hirers of symptoms which I feel could actually be covid. Fatigue, sore throats, stomach pains, diarrhoea (promptly sent home) headaches coughs that are assumed to be part of the cold symptoms they have etc. They don’t get tested as they aren’t presenting with the symptoms required for the test. They are well again with in a week and only mix within the same group of 30. As staff we keep our distance as much as possible. No scientific proof but in my opinion many of the children probably have it or have had it 🤷‍♀️

Exactly this. Zero children being tested, but almost 100% of children have been in school with symptoms that COULD be Covid.

The canaries in the particular coal mine are of course teachers / support staff BUT if we get symptoms and are tested, we will be told it is because we have brought it in from outside. The possibility that it might be because we have daily close contact with at least 30 children who have 'symptoms of something else', or are asymptomatic carriers, is conveniently ignored.

@whatsleep

I work in primary and have seen children come to school with a hirers of symptoms which I feel could actually be covid. Fatigue, sore throats, stomach pains, diarrhoea (promptly sent home) headaches coughs that are assumed to be part of the cold symptoms they have etc. They don’t get tested as they aren’t presenting with the symptoms required for the test. They are well again with in a week and only mix within the same group of 30. As staff we keep our distance as much as possible. No scientific proof but in my opinion many of the children probably have it or have had it 🤷‍♀️

I’ve read a bit about primary children possibly being silent spreaders too. As you say because they’re symptoms present differently they are less likely to get tested but arguably just as likely to spread it. I wonder if anybody in power will admit this before they are the only thing left open though!

@whatsleep

I work in primary and have seen children come to school with a hirers of symptoms which I feel could actually be covid. Fatigue, sore throats, stomach pains, diarrhoea (promptly sent home) headaches coughs that are assumed to be part of the cold symptoms they have etc. They don’t get tested as they aren’t presenting with the symptoms required for the test. They are well again with in a week and only mix within the same group of 30. As staff we keep our distance as much as possible. No scientific proof but in my opinion many of the children probably have it or have had it 🤷‍♀️

I agree, there are a lot of sore throats, odd rashes etc presenting in my primary at the moment, plus anecdotally around here a lot of sick staff.

I think there will be lots of asymptomatic children in primary. The idea that it’s only those with a cough or temp is very misleading. It will be very interesting to see what happens when the weather is colder and we can’t keep windows open....

It went through primary schools in March (and maybe even February) before anyone was getting tested, which is why teachers and the public were desperate for schools to shut. Many children in my school had it back then so we're not expecting large numbers now.

Also children have different symptoms to adults and those symptoms don't quality for a test so that's helpful

@purplewaterfall

Also children have different symptoms to adults and those symptoms don't quality for a test so that's helpful

If they are asymptotic and have mild symptoms is there any evidence that they passing on the virus to their parents or grandparents? I know so many with primary school kids and none of the parents seem to have caught the virus though.

It's working really well at DS's primary, there has been one positive case in a pupil. None in staff members.

At the start of term, reports of positive cases were being made known to the school community. Now, in response to PH advice, they are not. You wouldn't now be told if a child or a staff member tests positive. You also wouldn't know as whole classes in primary schools are not usually being sent home to isolate, it's only those testing positive who would be off.
Staff or children who are displaying symptoms are also not even being encouraged to take a test. This is what is now happening in primary schools.

The ONS data (random testing of a large group of people of all ages on a regular basis whether they have symptoms or not) shows that rate of infection in primary school children has not risen since schools returned and remains very low.

There is no evidence to suggest that primary aged children are a driver of infection and quite a lot of evidence to suggest that they are less likely to contract covid than adults and less likely to spread it.

English rates by age from here over the last week www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

Oh that’s just today. I’ll attempt last seven days.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/englandwalesandnorthernireland9october2020