Cases rising in secondary school-aged children - more mitigation measures needed?

[noblegiraffe]

The graph that was notable by its absence in this week's briefing has been released and it shows a steep increase in infections in 10-19 year olds. This is backed up by the ONS survey showing an increase in infections in years 7-11.

The Guardian appears to be the only newspaper to have noticed this, with government mouthpiece Prof Viner blathering 'it is likely that much of the transmission among groups of young people may be outside school settings, as we really have limited evidence of transmission within schools', completely ignoring the graph in front of his face that shows the rise looking remarkably coincident with the date schools re-opened.

With people on here insisting that the number of outbreaks in schools ( 13,000 kids in Birmingham currently self-isolating ) is nothing to worry about and that 'educational settings' just means that university data is being misinterpreted as applying to school children, surely this data must give pause for thought?

Maybe cramming kids into small classrooms with poor ventilation and no mitigation measures isn't the brightest idea and a rethink is needed before winter really sets in?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/02/covid-cases-among-secondary-school-aged-children-rise-in-england

That’s why the NEU are calling for Nightingale Schools.

I thought the issue with extra space was lack of staff?

Seemed to be when I mentioned using space a while back.

Would you combine schools I a nightingale school?

But at least the adults working in the same classroom are helping to protect each other by wearing masks. There are 3 adults in my classroom every day due to TAs+ teacher and none of us are allowed or required to wear masks even though the distancing is poor due to the number of people in the room and the physical size of the space.

Marcellemouse

Not true in all schools. Let those who can, do it (extra money for TAs, using existing spaces like halls).

Other schools can use community spaces, like in Italy.

Needs money, I've written to my MP about this repeatedly.

Italy doesn't have enough space so they planned over the summer, converted community spaces.

Why are our kids worth less than Italian kids?

Their education will be much less disrupted because their government invested in safe schooling.

Could use the hordes of catch-up tutors that the government has got waiting on funding, Marsha.

@IloveJKRowling

Italy doesn't have enough space so they planned over the summer, converted community spaces.

Why are our kids worth less than Italian kids?

Their education will be much less disrupted because their government invested in safe schooling.

Didn’t someone Piggy? mention a spike and closures in thread

Seems to be ok here so far in comparison according to that line

@noblegiraffe

Could use the hordes of catch-up tutors that the government has got waiting on funding, Marsha.

I wouldn’t say no Noble, a big ask. You’d have to double space and staff

Would cost a lot, even throwing billions at it is no guarantee (Italy) and they only got 1 and a bit extra teacher per our school for 2.9bn

There needs to be more protection for the teachers. They are the ones at risk.

I wish people would stop spouting the line that masks protect other not yourself.
There have been decent research showing that use of face coverings reduces the viral dose that reaches the wearer, reducing your chances of catching it. Just because it doesn't stop 100% of infecting particles, doesn't make them.worthless.

@JassyRadlett

Ultimately, unless and until the government recognised the importance of backwards contact tracing as well as forwards to understand the dynamics of the disease, this will all be a great deal of increasingly bad-tempered theorising with people picking their favourite scientists, theories and ways to interpret the data.

Maybe we can trace the impact of the epidemic through the use of all caps on the internet.

I found the article in the current issue of the Atlantic on overdispersion and the importance of K over R particularly interesting in understanding why our usual thinking on disease spread may (May!) be all wrong when it comes to Covid.

I’m sure the scientists mentioned will be a total anathema to some though.

This is really interesting and the first thing I have read about this pandemic that makes sense of all the different ways it has panned out in different countries

www.france24.com/en/20200910-covid-19-who-needs-a-test-when-and-which-one

France test if share a home with positive
And after 7 days if were in close contact.

Can you imagine how many cases we would have!!
By testing family then you might shut down some more links. Because say a parent gets a cough so keeps child off adult gets test positive but the child's school although told doesnt know whether the child also has it.

There have been decent research showing that use of face coverings reduces the viral dose that reaches the wearer, reducing your chances of catching it

Can you give a reference that applies to cloth masks?

@Piggywaspushed

There isn't actually any cases of someone with covid dying in a car crash many weeks later and having Covid on death cert

In 2019 there were about 1700 people died in rta in the UK. In 2020 there's likely to be fewer due to having a good few months where few people were travelling.

And if every single one of those 1700 died after contracting covid and being tested that would still only be around 4% of the covid deaths.

There is one simple measure that can be implemented right now: let the parents who can provide home education (with some support from the school) temporarily remove their children from school. We will see much more space in classrooms immediately.

Schools didn't open on 3rd August, which is the week cases started to rise in that age group. People did start getting back from holidays then. There have been a lot more single cases in schools than outbreaks of 2+ pupils/ staff, but in areas where community cases are high it seems inevitable that there needs to be a move to split times in school with distanced learning soon.

That said, some secondary schools mandate masks in corridors, why don't all? Some secondary schools have segregated off areas to limit mixing and crossing-over for toileys, why haven't others? Some secondary schools have staggered start times, breaks, finish times etc; others haven't. So I do also think parents and staff need to challenge specific school heads more if there are obvious mitigations that aren't being put in place, regardless of whether that school has had cases or not.

@NotQuiteHere

There is one simple measure that can be implemented right now: let the parents who can provide home education (with some support from the school) temporarily remove their children from school. We will see much more space in classrooms immediately.

Sweet Jesus please

Staggered breaks and lunches depend on timetables,groupings and logistics of canteen arrangements. I know one school can't afford to staff staggered lunches either kitchen staff or supervision staff.

Toilets again depend on the individual school. Some don't have enough to give one block to each bubble. We certainly don't.

Staggared arrival/departure is tricky if lots of kids come on school buses.

Masks should be mandatory in corridors.

The government said that if there aren’t enough toilets for one per bubble then they can share, instead of funding some temporary toilet blocks. That’s how much of a shit the government give about cross-contamination between bubbles.

@notevenat20

There have been decent research showing that use of face coverings reduces the viral dose that reaches the wearer, reducing your chances of catching it

Can you give a reference that applies to cloth masks?

So there is a strong element of common sense in this, and theoretical modelling would warrant its adoption.

However, here is a paper from the NIH website in America and there are 19 other papers, discussing face masks and measures to limit infection here - I haven't read them all, sorry.

@notevenat20

There have been decent research showing that use of face coverings reduces the viral dose that reaches the wearer, reducing your chances of catching it

Can you give a reference that applies to cloth masks?

Here's one. There are others

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

@notevenat20

There have been decent research showing that use of face coverings reduces the viral dose that reaches the wearer, reducing your chances of catching it

Can you give a reference that applies to cloth masks?

All I had to do was Google this keyword search: “evidence that cloth masks protect wearer”

The first result came back with this, referencing cloth masks:
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now#

Then this:
theconversation.com/cloth-masks-do-protect-the-wearer-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you-get-less-sick-143726

Then this:
www.discovermagazine.com/health/cloth-masks-do-protect-the-wearer-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you

Then this:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

And so on.

It really is easy to Google and read a range of articles to critically review an issue and you should try it sometime.

X post WhyNotMe40-easy to find some articles on the research done, isn’t it?!

Thanks for the cloth mask references!