Cases rising in secondary school-aged children - more mitigation measures needed?

[noblegiraffe]

The graph that was notable by its absence in this week's briefing has been released and it shows a steep increase in infections in 10-19 year olds. This is backed up by the ONS survey showing an increase in infections in years 7-11.

The Guardian appears to be the only newspaper to have noticed this, with government mouthpiece Prof Viner blathering 'it is likely that much of the transmission among groups of young people may be outside school settings, as we really have limited evidence of transmission within schools', completely ignoring the graph in front of his face that shows the rise looking remarkably coincident with the date schools re-opened.

With people on here insisting that the number of outbreaks in schools ( 13,000 kids in Birmingham currently self-isolating ) is nothing to worry about and that 'educational settings' just means that university data is being misinterpreted as applying to school children, surely this data must give pause for thought?

Maybe cramming kids into small classrooms with poor ventilation and no mitigation measures isn't the brightest idea and a rethink is needed before winter really sets in?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/02/covid-cases-among-secondary-school-aged-children-rise-in-england

@noblegiraffe 👍

Cases are going to keep rising. I work in a school and we are running out of hand sanitizer, and classrooms are not cleaned every day. Students are not washing their hands any more than they used to, and windows are being kept shut (if they opened in the first place) because the temperature is falling.

@notevenat20

On my first day back, three little children tried to hug me

They talk about being close for fifteen minutes so a hug might be fine. Being sneezed on probably not so much.

When I do group work with my class we are all looking at each other sat at a table at face height. When I sit on a chair to teach and a child approaches me, their face is the same height as mine. When I bend to do up coats my face is the same height as theirs.

This might interest you- schools in Bristol are doing a saliva study and finding some without the key symptoms...

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristols-biggest-school-confirms-coronavirus-4540538

I'd forgotten about that orange !

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54116927

@notevenat20

Well compulsory masks everywhere in school would be good, and bring us into line with the rest of the world.

Although I hate idea of wearing masks in lessons, one advantage could be that we could then only send the poorly child home if they test positive. This is what they do in France.

I notice that quite a few secondaries here have started wearing masks in lessons without much fuss.

@LynetteScavo

I think it's spreading in schools, but most children aren't showing symptoms. Then a member of staff shows symptoms and tests positive and voila they are the "guilty" one who must have caught it when on a pub/restaurant.

I agree. I think that there are many more asymptomatic than symptomatic people - that's what the mass random testing seems to tell us.

I suspect if we mass tested secondary schools, we would find similar results to those at Northumbria university.

Half of my DC's secondary school have come down with a cold over the last week or so. As far as I know colds spread the same way as Covid, so presumably the only reason that Covid is not spreading is either that no one has it or they are transmitting asymptomatically.
Oddly (if we're blaming social interactions and not schools for transmission) none of the DC's friends from other schools that they meet outdoors in small groups seem to have caught the same cold.

That’s good news, Orange, although once a month for six months is frustratingly slow!

As far as I know colds spread the same way as Covid

I read in the TES that colds aren’t as easily destroyed by hand hygiene as covid. www.tes.com/news/why-your-cold-tells-you-little-about-covid-transmission

But I don’t know about the respiratory bit.

At a school I know of they did test all staff and boarding pupils twice and it had not spread beyond the Initial cases and no reported cases in day pupils or their families.

notevenat20 - are your children all primary school age? You seem remarkably obtuse about the height of secondary school children and very much inclined to refer to data on young children as though it applies to everyone under the age of 18.

No, the problem is that all the communication on MN is treated as if you are in a row :) I was just sharing facts and opinions as I see them. The point about young children is clearly not relevant to children who aren't young.

I notice that quite a few secondaries here have started wearing masks in lessons without much fuss.

That is probably sensible, sadly. I hope that also means they only have to send one child home if there is a positive test.

I live near a very near a large secondary school which has very good measures in place while the children are in school but if you drive past the school when it is closing there are large groups of children with no SD at all.

At the moment they have had no cases but if any are reported the likelihood is that the virus would be passed on to other children after school not in school so it would not be the fault of the school that cases were spreading because children can’t or won’t SD outside of school.

I'm in Birmingham. We've had 3 weeks of lockdown.

Roads are quieter, most people in my area (with one of the highest incidence of CV 19 in the UK at the moment) seem to be observing the lockdown rules. No massive parties, mask-wearing, etc.

Except the cases just keep on rising. See pic with data for my local area. Of course they are!!! It will keep on spreading when people continue to be packed into poorly ventilated, crowded spaces and anyone who says otherwise is deluded.

Schools are jam-packed and 'Covid-safe' is meaningless in an educational setting in reality.

Every school in my local area has cases & self-isolating children / staff.

It IS spreading and despite their best efforts, of course schools cannot stop it. The Gov knew that they never could and all the 'guidance' was smoke & mirrors and blamegame when the education sector was very clear that this would be the result.

I live near a very near a large secondary school which has very good measures in place

On paper, and from the outside, that could be my school. The reality is rather different. They can’t and won’t SD inside school either.

@Piggywaspushed

They will not do widespread testing in schools. They are afraid of what they will discover and the actions they will have to take.

This

if you drive past the school when it is closing there are large groups of children with no SD at all.

What do you think it looks like inside the school that's any different?

We keep getting emails from the school focusing on attendance and telling us we need to provide medical certificate if a child is off for more than 3 days now. I find it odd to send these emails in the middle of a global pandemic where people should be encouraged to show caution if their child is ill rather than feeling pressure to send them in.
If there is a problem with truancy they should deal with those cases individually. We had a letter from the school expressing concern over DS attendance when if was off one day and we are only a few weeks into term. Ridiculous.

If there are currently thousands of asymptomatic DC at school will CV surely this could lead to CV not being an issue in education in few months, as most DC will have had it.

@Marcellemouse

If that is the case, I'm wondering what the impact might be on the teachers and other adults in schools, without whom there won't really be any schools.

@Marcellemouse

What mitigation measures do you suggest?

Can you expand on this? Are you passive-aggressively implying that we should just shut up and crack on? I think the curtness of the question makes it sound very snotty.

Ar they not sending class groups home anymore?

Just noticed this on a nearby school site:

Dear Parent/Carer,

We have been advised that there have been 2 confirmed cases of COVID-19 within our school community.

On receiving guidance from Public Health England we have identified a small number of individuals who have been in close contact with these confirmed cases who are to self-isolate with immediate effect.

These students and their parents have been individually notified when this period of self-isolation will end and on what date they can return to school.

The guidance from Public Health England is that all other students can continue to attend school as normal if they remain well.

We are grateful for the care our wider school community has shown since September in following guidance about when a child is not fit to be in school. Given the current national and local situation in relation to Covid-19 infection numbers, it is particularly important that we all maintain this cautious approach.

Orange that was what happened where I am. Small number of isolating students and no staff required to isolate. Despite one teacher spending 3 hours in the same room.

We also had a email about attendance (general attendance) and telling us if we would send them in before lockdown to send them in now..