Why are we Forgetting Save the NHS / Flatten the Curve

[Flaxmeadow]

We, and also other countries, locked down to prevent the collapse of the health service. To prevent millions of people catching the virus in a shore space of time. To stop services being overwhelmed, not just by those dying but by those many more who would also require medical assistance

Science and government told us back in the summer that if we hadn't had lockdown, then in the UK half a million people would already have died. This is a conservative estimate and is agreed on by most scientist, and these kind of numbers agreed globally too.

This is why we have lockdowns. To flatten the curve. So that we still have a functioning NHS, functioning social services and police.

Are people forgetting all this now and if so why?

There are some esteemed scientists remember (see Professor Gupta, for example, or Carl Heneghan) who say lockdowns/ severe social restrictions are not the right approach. So it's not just cut and dried that these things are the obvious answer - so some people are weary for this reason as we don't even know if it's the right approach. Secondly, of course people are not going to happily accept restrictions on their lives for months/years with no end in sight! People can see the stats for themselves and most people dying of this disease are sadly very old or very ill. Not everyone, but most. People are starting to think that quality of life needs to be preserved, rather than saving lives at all costs. Is there not an argument that very old Covid patients should not be prioritised care wise over e.g. a younger cancer patient who needs a bed and treatment? That's essentially what is happening at the moment. It's not a deliberate decision but essentially what is happening is that Govt does not want to be in a position where the NHS has to start refusing beds to some people - i.e. rationing health care because too many people get sick at once. If that happened, younger Covid patients would get the beds. The Govt does not want to be the Govt that stopped people over say 80 getting beds. But the long term impact of this is that treatments and beds are being held back from younger patients who need treatment now. It's harder to see and less direct but that's what happening and people are angry.

@Flaxmeadow

The strategy is no longer about the nhs

Where does it say that ?

On the tweet. To suppress it, while protecting economy and education, until a vaccine arrives.

At first the message was flatten the curve, protect the nhs. They said 12 weeks max. Yes a few things opened up over summer but we never came out of lockdown, still had restrictions on group size, still had to social distance. Some areas never came out of full lockdown. We don’t have an end date for restrictions and people’s lives are put on hold indefinitely. Of course people are angry and restless. That’s before the mess that’s the nhs, some services are coming back but really it’s not back to where it needs to be and people are getting missed. I’m sticking to restrictions at the moment but if they don’t give us an end plan soon i won’t be, it’s sad I won’t be able to see my grandma as she’s elderly but I can’t really see her now anyway so won’t make much difference to me.

I think between the Nightingales not being used, people seriously ill with covid not being admitted to hospital, infectious covid patients being dumped in care homes, appointments and treatments indefinitely cancelled, and pregnant, labouring and postpartum women left to fend for themselves I think it's fair to say the early goodwill for the government, rules and NHS has been decimated.

Not all the fault of the NHS of course but perception is reality for people.

There is a huge variation in what consultants are doing. I'm a GP and my 4 partners are married to hospital consultants. 2 of them had leave cancelled for several months, taken out of their normal jobs and put onto COVID wards...., another works with drug dependent patients and they have never been busier helping with substitute prescriptions and getting people off the streets, the last one has been twiddling his thumbs and telling his wife their department is so up to date but they are not....we have patients waiting to be seen.

There is a LOT if I'll feeling between the specialities.

@Flaxmeadow

The people I know, who I've shopped for and are shielding, have still had appointments for their serious health conditions. They've said it's easier now in some ways

GPs and hospitals are still treating people and always have. I had a GP appointment in April. I know some routine screenings are behind though

MaxNormal Do you really not care if health services social services, police etc collapse or are just in a bad mood or something?

That's in your area. Others are not so lucky. Sadly many won't get the vital treatment they need.

worryingly the NHS is back to face to face clinics with PPE

Thanks to save the NHS thousands of people will die from cancer and other life threatening illnesses. Utter over reaction.

@Tomatoesneedtoripen and ??

Many people have lost an awful lot due to Covid restrictions - not mere inconveniences - missed the funerals of their loved ones, the birth of their children, education disappeared, jobs disappeared, rendered homeless, unable to access care for other issues....

Many of those people will barely use the NHS. And - a big fat elephant in the room - they will see yet sort of people who will be the likely patients in ICU with Covid, out and about, enjoying their lives, maskless as you please.

pretty sure cancer treatment has carried on, particularly chemotherapy.

I think are expectations of the NHS are being deliberately lowered.

Various treatment including some cancer related was stopped because of the number of covid patients in hospital, and the medical risk to the patients of cancer being less than the risk of the virus

not because of lockdown.

We can't make the virus go away

It we give up, it comes back hard and all NHS treatment will suffer, as will the staff

I think most of us have been impacted in some way.

My mother's eye treatment was cancelled and she feared she'd be left blind.

My friend's hip surgery has been cancelled twice.

My son's year 9 vaccination didn't go ahead, along with half his year. He's in year 10 now and there are no plans to reschedule this. The vaccination team don't respond and everybody seems more concerned about Covid than this routine vaccination. I have no idea if my son is now at more risk due to the anti-vaxxers.

Covid is king.

People have always been able to access health care not related to covid, infact people had to be told to do it. Yes some appointments were delayed for a few weeks but then new ones sent out not long after

Are you serious? I know people who have had treatment cancelled and are still waiting for it to restart, serious on going illnesses. Regular check ups for asthma and diabetes haven't been done all year and people i know are struggling.

Mental health support has all but vanished.
New symptoms arent being diagnosed with no sight of a gp appoint never mind a hospital appoint.
Many Drs and nurses are writing open letters to the gov about the 100,000 people who will die or be seriously ill next year because of lack of treatment or diagnosis.
The curve was flattened months ago yet many hospitals are still empty.
How many people have died because they are constantly fed the "do not go.to hospital for anything its too selfish/dangerous" line? . Many respected Drs are quoting figures in the tens of thousands.
There is no on going need to "protect" the NHS. I know nurses who have been bored to tears for months and still have to go to work to sit and do nothing and are increasingky worried about thier regular patients not being seen.
Surely a hospital is the one place that should be working. Stopping more people becoming seriously ill from anything other than covid is just as important for the long term?

You do know that the half a million dead and dying in the street was as much bullshit as all the other predictions that oaf has made in the past don't you? His model has been criticised by most other scientists yet Boris still used him!

It's still a crisis, still pandemic but some people treat it now as of it was a horrible movie show that is ended and we can all get back to normal now but we can't and maybe never can
Of course we can! It's a virus same as all the other viruses out there. We live with viruses all the time, life isnt 'safe' never was i dont understsnd why people think it should be now and we can stop death in its tracks. Currently flu is killing 5 times more people than covid is (which begs the question how masks can stop covid but not flu?) but nobody would suggest we stop the world for that. Not even in 2018 when tens of thousands died from flu in UK. We have to live with it it won't just magically go away if we hide in our homes. The vaccine people keep saying will save us won't even give you immunity it will just lesson the symptoms according to the latest info on it.

Maybe look further than Boris and his two 'advisors' who are running the show with vested interests, and read what actualy respected scientists are saying? More and more are saying enough is enough get on with life before the whole country is in an economic and health crisis hole we will never get out of again.

I have been unable to access any medical treatment since March bar a single telephone GP appointment when I was diagnosed with sepsis
I can’t get to see a dentist either
I am waiting for joint surgery and bladder operation
It’s getting much worse and I may have to reduce my hours or give up work completely if I don’t get treated soon

A lot of people have simply had enough, I’m afraid. They have sacrificed a huge amount - education, employment in many cases, medical treatment, social interaction, mental health. Whole industries will never recover. People are sick of being told they are ‘selfish’ or ‘killing vulnerable people’ when for the most part they have stuck to the (inconsistent, confusing) rules as best they can. The ‘save the NHS’ line doesn’t cut it anymore, and it will cut it even less once furlough ends and thousands more families are tipped into poverty.

Perhaps someone could tell these families that they are being selfish and need to think of the NHS? www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parents-of-disabled-children-pray-for-the-end-of-each-day-during-lockdown-g3mbvt882

Yes people are fed up and if the government want people to stick to it for longer they need to come up with something better than save the NHS. People don’t care anymore, not when it’s impossible to get a go appointment or hospital treatment has been cancelled.

Racoonworld

At first the message was flatten the curve, protect the nhs. They said 12 weeks max.

I'm pretty sure no one, govt or scientists, said it would only last 12 weeks

This is the point I'm trying to make. We were told how serious the situation is in March, we were told that we could have rolling lockdowns and possibly for at least 18 months, that the situation is extremely serious. We had hours of graphs showing this.

My question is, why have people forgotten this or did people even bother to listen to the breifings in the first place?

Yes a few things opened up over summer but we never came out of lockdown, still had restrictions on group size, still had to social distance. Some areas never came out of full lockdown. We don’t have an end date for restrictions and people’s lives are put on hold indefinitely.

How can we have an end when there is no vaccine?

The virus is not going away. We need to suppress it so that services are not overwhelmed

There is no need in sight yet. Why do people not understand this. It's a new virus, and we do not know how it will behave in the future.

Of course people are angry and restless.

Angry with what? The virus? What are they angry with when they have been told repeatedly that it's dangerous if it is left to spread uncontrollably.

I get that people might think mistakes have been made but right now what is the alternative to lockdowns?

That’s before the mess that’s the nhs, some services are coming back but really it’s not back to where it needs to be and people are getting missed. I’m sticking to restrictions at the moment but if they don’t give us an end plan soon i won’t be, it’s sad I won’t be able to see my grandma as she’s elderly but I can’t really see her now anyway so won’t make much difference to me

What new plan are you wanting?

On the tweet. To suppress it, while protecting economy and education, until a vaccine arrives

But suppress and exonomy is to save the NHS. It's a balance between lockdowns and the NHS. Either way the NHS suffers. No economy, no NHS. No lockdowns, no NHS.

People seem to think the lockdowns are just to save lives, they are not. The lockdowns/flatten the curve, are to save the health services from being overwhelmed, not just with the dying buy with those many more who would require medical attention.

@Flaxmeadow

Qasd Yes I see what you mean but I do wonder why did people assume everything could open up again? We have already been told there would be rolling lockdowns back in March and that the virus is going to be a long term problem.

TheGreatWave
I don't remember seeing or reading anything about eradication?
People have always been able to access health care not related to covid, infact people had to be told to do it. Yes some appointments were delayed for a few weeks but then new ones sent out not long after

That I assure you is not the case.

I have been referred under the 2 week urgent referral service. Once for a scan on August 3rd and again for gyn Consult on 1st sept. I'm still waiting. Told they are not running services because of Covid. So no, that's really isn't the case.

It differs greatly from area to area but here I know several people who have been told no treatment or further tests because of the pandemic and basically just been sent home to die.

I agree it was about flattening the curve and I don't know what the solution is but you are completely off point if you think there was just some delays of a few weeks. It makes so sense why things are as bad as they are either, but the reality is even with two GPs asking 7 times for a urgent referral things, for me at least, are not happening. I feel sorry for GPs who are trying their best and can't do anything for their patients.

Back in March the top bod in the NHS said urgent and vital life saving treatments would still go ahead. It's in the link I posted (article from 17th of March I think). Infact later the government had to remind people about this because people were not attending important appointments or A&E So what has happened to change that? What are consultants doing ATM? Have none of them been working since March? I can't see how that can be true

We had how many months in lockdown where to government could have used the time to come up with a plan to put clear and concise measures in place to allow people as much freedom as possible whilst restricting the spread as far as is practical.

Instead we got half-baked, confusing rules that change from week to week whilst the people supposedly in charge do whatever the fuck they like.

We were in a good position in as much as we could see what was happening in other countries and had the chance to put plans in place. But no.

The thing is there are areas with very low cases, and in some none.

We are not getting medical care due to higher levels around 180 miles away. .

We have hospitals just for out patient's there are ways ppl could get help.

I'd love to know the early cancer deaths , suicide deaths, heart attacks, all the stuff that wasnt treated due to govt guideline.
I dont blame Drs, nurses etc.