Why are we Forgetting Save the NHS / Flatten the Curve

[Flaxmeadow]

We, and also other countries, locked down to prevent the collapse of the health service. To prevent millions of people catching the virus in a shore space of time. To stop services being overwhelmed, not just by those dying but by those many more who would also require medical assistance

Science and government told us back in the summer that if we hadn't had lockdown, then in the UK half a million people would already have died. This is a conservative estimate and is agreed on by most scientist, and these kind of numbers agreed globally too.

This is why we have lockdowns. To flatten the curve. So that we still have a functioning NHS, functioning social services and police.

Are people forgetting all this now and if so why?

So what are all these consultants doing? Why arent they seeing people?

“But why did/do people think it would disappear? This is what I'm curious about. Why do people think it would disappear when we have been told repeatedly that it won't”

I didn’t think it would disappear, I don’t expect it to ever disappear. I did think a functioning test system, some more treatments (and more information about what is going on with all the various trials), better planning and a degree of public acceptance that some people are going to die of covid and that is better than the alternative might have happened by now, or at least be on the horizon.

You seem to think that the fact that we were warned it would take a long time means people who in some cases barely use the nhs should meekly and quietly accept unemployment, poverty, homelessness, the loss of a business, poor mental health, the loss of education for their child etc etc, with absolutely no end in sight and no compensation just because they were told about it a few months ago.

OP I thought that the lockdown will erradicate it because well... if we were not in contact with one another how can the virus pass to another host? It will not be able to, so as the host has built antibodies and the new viruses cannot infect other then it should vanish. We were in lockdown no for 14 days, no 28 no, months! Only priority workers were out and about, and the only other place where you found other human beings were supermarkets.
I am still amazed that it is making a return. It is very resilient indeed, and I now see that I was naive to think we could get rid of it on the first go.
I watch a scientist saying the R rate is very high, read some info about the virus remaining active for long time in surfaces (so we cleaned shopping and deliveries), also read WHO said it was not airborne, so I thought we could get rid of it at the back of the curve flatening.

You seem to think that the fact that we were warned it would take a long time means people who in some cases barely use the nhs should meekly and quietly accept unemployment, poverty, homelessness, the loss of a business, poor mental health, the loss of education for their child etc etc,

No I don't. But I dont know what the alternative is to lockdown. What is the alternative?

with absolutely no end in sight

No there is no end in sight. It is a new virus, it is highly infectious. If it is left to it's own devices then health care, police and social services will collapse. What then for unemployment, mental health and so on?

and no compensation just because they were told about it a few months ago

Compensation for what? It's a virus, how do you claim compensation from a global pandemic? You can't sue a virus

The 500,000 figure was using an IFR three times the current estimate. We know a lot more now than we did then.

Over 200 people die from smoking in the UK per day. Coronavirus is/was 78. Let's add alcohol related deaths into the equation and that figure wouldn't bear thinking about. We never locked down for people smoking and giving the possibility of cancer in to others in public places.

am still amazed that it is making a return. It is very resilient indeed,

Yes it is. I remember a top scientist in China in an article back in April saying

"The virus is stealthy and robust"

and I now see that I was naive to think we could get rid of it on the first go.

I dont think you're naive, I just think we are all dealing with something new

I watch a scientist saying the R rate is very high, read some info about the virus remaining active for long time in surfaces (so we cleaned shopping and deliveries), also read WHO said it was not airborne, so I thought we could get rid of it at the back of the curve flatening

Yes and even on mumsnet any talk of it being airborne, which we now know it is, was banned

That makes a massive difference indeed. It being airborne explains the R number and the resilience, together with the high asymptomatic rate. It just stays dormant in little corners and snugs till the victims turn up again

Lockdown was NEVER about eradicating the virus. You can’t eradicate it.
You can vaccinate against a virus, so long as it doesn’t mutate. But it already has mutated.
Although it’s more frightening than the flu, it’s the same in so far as if you tried to eradicate the flu by lockdown, you couldn’t.
OP - stop worrying about the messages from the government, the tag lines etc.
Just be sensible about hand washing, not seeing too many people and so on.

MushMonster

I think they might have had an idea it was airborne but maybe didn't want to panic people? It would explain the global rush into lockdown. Not that I think there was anything sinister about not suggesting it was airborne but more to stop panic

I suppose part of the reason for starting the thread is that I just dont think people, large parts of the general public, are taking it seriously anymore . Governments and science still are but people seem to be losing patience sadly.

It's still a crisis, still pandemic but some people treat it now as of it was a horrible movie show that is ended and we can all get back to normal now but we can't and maybe never can

OP - stop worrying about the messages from the government, the tag lines etc.

It's notthe government I'm worried about

Just be sensible about hand washing, not seeing too many people and so on.

I am but many now are not anymore

If people really care about the NHS thty would all quit smoking. It's crazy the amount of smoking related deaths in the uk a year and the amount of hospitalisation to boot. I hope all those moaning at people not following restrictions don't smoke as the NHS has been under enough pressure from smokers for years.

A friend of mine had his chemo cancelled because of covid and it’s now terminal. I have a physio referral for a physical condition that’s to be done via a video conference call. Those kind of crazy NHS decisions are why people have stopped giving 2 shits. Because the people with pre existing conditions have been literally left to rot to protect “potential” covid sufferers.

Sorry to read that Brummymum and anyone else who has been affected in a similar way

people have always been able to access health care not related to covid, infact people had to be told to do it. Yes some appointments were delayed for a few weeks but then new ones sent out not long after

Not where I live. For months I have been told I need to be seen. 4 weeks ago I finally managed to get some blood tests. The results not great and need to be seen. I finally got to speak to a gp 3 weeks later to discuss results, meds sorted. Someone will be in touch to make an appointment as I need to be seen, which will no doubt yet again be another phone appointment.

I am high medical risk can get my flu jab tomorrow, getting other jabs I need erm. I have a stent in my kidney that until reconstructive surgery should be changed every 6 weeks. 7 months now. Fuck knows how it's still holding out.

On the other hand, Mh have been amazing throughout including cahms. And so was the gp back in March/April when I was really ill with cv.

Our version of lockdown was too little, too late. The government’s advice has been confusing and inconsistent at best. People have lost faith in the government and have to do what they feel is best. My friend is a consultant at a local hospital and she and her colleagues have been told to cancel everything because they expect to be needed on more Covid cases, for months they did very little because actually those cases (thankfully) didn’t come. The NHS needs to be able to do what they’re meant for, not just deal with Covid.

If people really care about the NHS thty would all quit smoking. It's crazy the amount of smoking related deaths in the uk a year and the amount of hospitalisation to boot. I hope all those moaning at people not following restrictions don't smoke as the NHS has been under enough pressure from smokers for years

To be fair booze and fags are heavily taxed in the UK . I'd like to go further and tax unhealthy fats, sugar and processed meals. Also a drain on health services

Our version of lockdown was too little, too late. The government’s advice has been confusing and inconsistent at best.

I disagree that we locked down late. We locked down at the same rates of infection as other countries. Most governments in Europe have more or less followed the same strategy

People have lost faith in the government and have to do what they feel is best.

Or is it more that people didnt listen to what was said, especially back in March

My friend is a consultant at a local hospital and she and her colleagues have been told to cancel everything because they expect to be needed on more Covid cases, for months they did very little because actually those cases (thankfully) didn’t come. The NHS needs to be able to do what they’re meant for, not just deal with Covid.

Told by who to cancel?

Article from March, before lockdown, on plans for the NHS. It says urgent operations and treatments should still go ahead.

www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-update-cases-nhs-beds-operations-latest-a9406966.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16015941570976&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fhealth%2Fcoronavirus-uk-update-cases-nhs-beds-operations-latest-a9406966.html

Our lockdown was light. You could go out and exercise every days. That’s probably more outings per day I’d do pre covid.

Talking to mil and sil back then (italy) they had it much harsher. Ours was nothing in comparison and we can’t cope with it.

We’re way too cool for school - we can’t cope with masks, social distancing and thinking of others.

Sorry, link here

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-update-cases-nhs-beds-operations-latest-a9406966.html

How can any of us know whether lockdown worked or works or made a difference?
We did what we were told.
For those saying it wasn’t said it was airborne... what the fuck did you think it was?
Why else was there a 2 metre distance, masks etc?
Because it can only be contracted by touch?
Jesus on a bike - it wasn’t exactly hidden.

Of course they said that flax, just as it's not making headlines now either and yet it's true that many people will die sooner because they've not had their trestments. It's shocking and no one who can do anything about it seems to give a shit.

And what does COVID-19 have to do with smokers? Or drinkers? Or fat people? Or anorexic people? Or people who somehow “cause” the poor old NHS to be under pressure?
The NHS is under funded and at any rate unless you want a police state where no-one can destroy themselves if they have to or want to... just so some people can describe illness as a massive tragedy, as opposed to something that happens to biological entities whether you are well-behaved by 1950’s housewife standards or not

How can any of us know whether lockdown worked or works or made a difference?

Of course it made a difference. The numbers stopped climbing

We did what we were told.
For those saying it wasn’t said it was airborne... what the fuck did you think it was?

It wasn't talked about much at first. Though some of us did try to discuss it on here but threads about it were banned. Though I can understand why.

Why else was there a 2 metre distance, masks etc?

As a precaution and the mask thing wasn't until later, at least not in Europe, but then there was also a global shortage of PPE

Because it can only be contracted by touch?
Jesus on a bike - it wasn’t exactly hidden.

The big thing back in March and April was that it was mainly formite transmission. Wash hands, avoid switches, handles etc. The airborne thing was not really an issue until recently, but probably suspected.

It's so easy to forget what happened back then. But in many ways It's still new. We are all still learning.

It's almost as if people are bored if it, like a pair of shoes or a computer game they're not interested in anymore. Is it that we have no attention span anymore