“Together we can defeat this virus”

[IfIHadAHeart]

From Boris’s press conference.

I really don’t think this is a helpful message. A virus cannot be “defeated”. Not to mention that the strategy is completely impossible to understand due to being different across different nations/areas, and the measures themselves seem contradictory and pointless.

Somebody somewhere is gathering fascinating data on all this as a study of social compliance (not a conspiracy theorist, but I’m sure this is all useful information for future governments).

It is incredibly difficult to communicate virology and epidemiology to a population with an average IQ if 100.

Even many reasonably clever people on this site don’t get it, even though they think they do (that they don’t is clear from their comments).

The end game is clear. We do as much as we need to keep r (on average) close to one. We await a vaccine, which should be available mid 2021. We stimulate the economy until then and keep as many people working as possible.

Clearly some sensible methods (eg no more than two households mixing) are unenforceable, so we get the rule of 6. It is crude (and unfair on some) but it is enforceable and allows some mixing but does not allow large groups. Schools are deemed too important to close, so other things have to give. That is not inconsistency, it is trying to get an average down (number of contacts per person per day). The ‘I can mix with 50 at school but only 6 at home, that is ridiculous’ brigade clearly do not understand this prioritisation and averaging process.

It is very hard for a government to get compliance from an increasingly ill educated population, who know all about their rights but care little about their responsibilities, hence the seemingly stupid 3 word slogans.

If you need to find someone to blame, (I personally don't, but it seems some of you definitely need a scapegoat) then don't blame those that are trying to keep us safe, trying to find ways to manage the crisis, that are up all night every night trying to agree ways to manage the pandemic.

You ought to be blaming those that flout the rules, have parties, those choosing to have large dinner parties or BBQS (we all know who they are) knowing the risks: they could not give a damn about anyone else.

Maybe that is you? Maybe it is your parents? Maybe it is your teenager. Who knows. But certainly there are many many people quite happily ignoring the rules, and THEY are causing the next calamity. Not Johnson and certainly not Chris Whitty!

You may screech and demand for a perfect track and trace, but the technology is new, it takes time. You may demand for more testing, but we are already testing more than any other European country. You may demand that this should not be happening to you, well sorry, but this is pandemic it is crap for all of us!

The reason why we are now in this position as a country is simply because we live in a selfish me me me society that has lost sight of the importance of acting for the greater good. You see meticulous care in Asia with hygiene, mask wearing, a careful following the of rules, and quiet respect for the safety of others. You certainly do not see that here!

We have lost sight of community based support and caring for others. We hold onto a wafer thin belief that our families are immune somehow from the virus because we are young/fit/untouchable, so we can do as we like. The lockdown restrictions are for others, not us.

Those that admire the Swedish model forget that it relies on everyone doing the right thing, being considerate and respecting others, and more importantly following the rules.

So we are where we are because we are a naturally rebellious nation, insular, selfish society that looks after number one. So instead of blaming others start looking at your own character and your contribution to the crisis.

@Overwhelmed222

Boris is full of shit. Why anyone listens to him, his idiotic cabinet, or his advisers and think any of them know what they are doing is beyond me.

^ this

Hard to argue with this

Maybe that is you? Maybe it is your parents? Maybe it is your teenager. Who knows. But certainly there are many many people quite happily ignoring the rules, and THEY are causing the next calamity. Not Johnson and certainly not Chris Whitty!

I disagree with this. Not about Whitty, but Johnson himself was shaking hands after advising the nation to distance, he stood in a school recently not distancing, he let his adviser off with flagrant breach of guidance etc etc. Then there is Eat Out to Catch the Virus and all the calls for 'bustle'.

Johnson is not exactly a masterclass in caution.

@StormzyinaTCup

Agree with both your posts Friends.

I would add that yes the Government have made mistakes, particularly early on, but I do think the way the media have behaved and the amount of fear/spin and division that they put out on a daily basis has been nothing short of an utter disgrace and I sincerely hope they are held to account somehow.

Yes. The media have been appalling. Meanwhile they all have their jobs

Repeat,

Finding a scapegoat (Johnson) to blame for one’s own behaviour is not productive.

Johnson clearly got it wrong at the start. Cummings should have been sacked unceremoniously as soon as his hypocrisy was clear.

However, aiding the spread of a virus is not a rational response to the normal self entitlement and self aggrandisement of our political class. It just makes anyone who does it as bad as them.

I have now written to my MP about the media (such as Sky news and BBC among others) and their determination to create as much toxic division as possible, they are literally churning out propaganda morning, noon and night. And we are paying for this privilege.

It is impossible for find any neutral news outlet at all particularly on TV and radio channels, where you can't simply listen to the news without a barrage hateful, antagonistic reporting. I just want to know the facts, I don't care about Beth Rigby's take on it or whoever happens to be on that day. The age of neutral, balanced, professional journalism appears to be completely over.

Write to Ofcom as well if you are serious about doing something about it storm

Friends,

There are loads of news sources such as Reuters which just carry facts.

The main news channels are news plus opinion.

The one that annoys me the most, though, is the BBC, who smugly interview their own journalists. Sooner the licence fee is abolished the better.

I still rely on R4 especially for scientific programmes or stat one which is very good

But yes it’s highly irritating and frustrating to hear the morning interviews. And the prodding and provoking.

A lot of it is actually somewhat a vacuum of news so the media lurches from one extreme to another with their own take.

@larrygrylls

It is incredibly difficult to communicate virology and epidemiology to a population with an average IQ if 100.

Even many reasonably clever people on this site don’t get it, even though they think they do (that they don’t is clear from their comments).

The end game is clear. We do as much as we need to keep r (on average) close to one. We await a vaccine, which should be available mid 2021. We stimulate the economy until then and keep as many people working as possible.

Clearly some sensible methods (eg no more than two households mixing) are unenforceable, so we get the rule of 6. It is crude (and unfair on some) but it is enforceable and allows some mixing but does not allow large groups. Schools are deemed too important to close, so other things have to give. That is not inconsistency, it is trying to get an average down (number of contacts per person per day). The ‘I can mix with 50 at school but only 6 at home, that is ridiculous’ brigade clearly do not understand this prioritisation and averaging process.

It is very hard for a government to get compliance from an increasingly ill educated population, who know all about their rights but care little about their responsibilities, hence the seemingly stupid 3 word slogans.

Yes it still is an issue that people don’t get this.

@AlecTrevelyan006

I think we are in this for the long haul. As in years. The British population wont rise up in protest. We will just keeping taking the beatings. Unless this government falls, i just don't see the approach changing. Only Covid matters. NOTHING else is relevant. Today, STILL banging on about defeating the virus. Total annihilation of the country is now assured.

Life as we knew it is gone forever.

If i can keep my head above water during whats coming, i'll take that as a win. Enjoying life will have to take a back seat. Probably for a very long time.

If we're still in this situation in 12 months with all the restrictions and focus (the virus will still be around) then people will be fed up and start to question more.

We can't live like this for years over a virus which more than 99% of people will recover from. This winter, fine, but we need some normality next year.

@larrygrylls

Repeat,

Finding a scapegoat (Johnson) to blame for one’s own behaviour is not productive.

Johnson clearly got it wrong at the start. Cummings should have been sacked unceremoniously as soon as his hypocrisy was clear.

However, aiding the spread of a virus is not a rational response to the normal self entitlement and self aggrandisement of our political class. It just makes anyone who does it as bad as them.

If you are suggesting I myself have used him as a scapegoat you are completely off the mark. I am confident Chris Whitty would give me a badge if he knew me .

I agree that anyone using Johnson as scapegoat is irrational and self-defeating. But I also know that in survey after survey many people have said that, and Johnson was responsible for not only not sacking Cummings NHS, but publicly defending his choices. And the consequences of that are negative for the country.

That doesn't change the fact that Johnson himself is a major hindrance, he can't string a sentence together, is indecisive, and has said openly he doesn't like rules.

Even Tory MPs are frustrated with the 'great communicator' now.

The narrative that the plebs are all to blame washes with some, but plenty of decent people, myself included, have done everything asked of us.

Overall, I think the British people have been massively let down by Johnson. I am so sad our country has had such a low-grade government at such a difficult time.

I have never cared less about political party, and I've never cared more about honesty and leadership.

The epidemic has starkly illustrated the lack of mathematical and scientific understanding amongst the political (and civil servant) classes. Just Alok Sharma in the cabinet has a STEM degree.

All those Oxford PPEs looking pretty worthless right now.

If you look at Merkel, she really gets it. Shame we don’t have Margaret Thatcher now.

Agree Merkel has been vastly better.

Economics wound have the maths though. Classics not that helpful

Also the overall political culture didn’t help plus media is irritating

I do actually think the others Whitty, Sunak and even Hancock have dealt with it well (Hancock got into it later).

Johnson hasn’t been a great fit

All he's saying is, if these measures don't work, it'll be our fault.

The epidemic has starkly illustrated the lack of mathematical and scientific understanding amongst the political (and civil servant) classes. Just Alok Sharma in the cabinet has a STEM degree.

Yes, I think this is a really serious issue. We need to work harder to improve scientific literacy at secondary schools so that the population as a whole is better educated.

I'm fed up, as are lost people. I want my life back and just wish people could be sensible. For what a month? Cases would drop dramatically and then we could maybe get back to even a bit more normality.

People were "sensible" for 3 months on the initial lockdown. There was a very high compliance rate. Cases dropped and the government told us to go out and about, so we did. Surprise surprise cases increased.

So you want us to be sensible for another month? Cases will go down and as soon as we stop, they will increase again.

Should we do that forever?

People were "sensible" for 3 months on the initial lockdown. There was a very high compliance rate. Cases dropped and the government told us to go out and about, so we did. Surprise surprise cases increased.

The government should take responsibility rather than blaming it on the public, they've cocked this up from the start. Still not having effective testing system in place is unforgivable.

I know two people who've currently got the virus. They caught it in the office after being railroaded back in by the 'get back to the office' campaign, when they were working effectively from home. Now their local area is set to be hit with a hard local lockdown.

Annabel,

The ‘government should take responsibility’ is an empty soundbite.

What would that look like to you?

If you need to find someone to blame, (I personally don't, but it seems some of you definitely need a scapegoat) then don't blame those that are trying to keep us safe, trying to find ways to manage the crisis, that are up all night every night trying to agree ways to manage the pandemic.

You are entirely unqualified to tell anyone where they ought to be placing blame.

I think too that is an empty sound bite - what a lot of people want is the government to ‘sort it out’ whilst they happily continue their social life, mixing indoors/having parties etc without taking any of the responsibility on themselves.

@Itsabeautifuldayheyhey
They have turned around the problems that were experienced with PPE. There is now a 4 month stockpile
They have sourced these mainly from British companies with 70% of it being manufactured in the UK now as opposed to 1% earlier in the pandemic
they ran them down in the first place and gave contracts to their backers, with no exp of sourcing PPE, they lied about the amounts they gave out, 4 months isn't enough.

They have paid companies resulting in 7 million people receiving the majority if their pay rather than letting their jobs immediately go to the wall
Not targeted and has been subject to huge amounts of fraud.,

They have built 7 Nightingale hospitals in super quick time to cope with Covid patients in the event that other hospitals being overrun

PR only as they never had the staff or equipment, they also didn't "build" these hospitals, they repurposed existing building. Most treatments in the NHS did stop, so the NHS was in fact overwhelmed.

Then lets talk about the lack of testing fiasco and track and trace..... even now no regularly testing of NHS staff or CH's

There is little they have done to instil any confidence, unless you think building a huge lorry park in kent is good governance?

@Friendsoftheearth

Oh right, I have been writing to the media asking for proper coverage of the rising infections in schools.

You may not have noticed but there appears to be a concerted effort to muzzle the BBC, sadly.