Class sizes may have to rise to 60

[Baboonballoon]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/27/class-sizes-in-uk-may-rise-to-60-as-schools-struggle-to-cover-for-self-isolating-teachers

This is so depressing and the government’s statement at the end is pathetic - why didn’t they see this coming and allocate additional funding for schools to pay for additional teachers?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Air#:~:text=School%20of%20the%20Air%20is%20a%20generic%20term,small%20for%20a%20conventional%20school%20to%20be%20viable.
I remembered & had thought about this previously - how it worked etc
could this be a short term model?

DD's primary school are only allowed to go to the toilet at allocated times. Some classes only have 1 teacher per class, with no additional support staff. DD's class has no additional support. So she only gets 3 loo breaks a day. Quite tricky with suspected ASD & a UTI. There are no classrooms large enough for a double sized class. I can only imagine how the teachers are coping. They are all lovely, BTW, this is not a bash at DD's school, both she & we think they are amazing.

I'm sorry but it's all a load of bollocks. I don't work with one teacher who would agree to those conditions and I would hope that the parents of my students wouldn't agree either. My school had over 1400 students and only about 5 rooms where this would even be physically possible. It is absolutely appalling the way school children, teachers and schools have been treated during this pandemic. Millions has been spent propping up businesses yet as far as I am aware, not one penny extra has been given to my school to help keep everyone safe. I haven't seen my family since Christmas because they live abroad, we can't all visit my parents in law because that takes us over the rule of 6 yet I can go from classroom to classroom full of 30 odd kids every lesson and all I've got by way of PPE is a pack of cheap wipes! School staff are collateral damage as far as the government is concerned and I hope one day someone is called to account for the mess they have made of this entire situation. They should hang their heads in shame, they could have done so much better than this!! 😠

Independent schools definitely need to be helping.

How??

@HipTightOnions

Or they'd rent out office space from companies that are wfh

How would this help?

Because you could actually fit 60 people in an open plan office.

My kids go to a secondary with 1800 kids. There's less than 1 room per year that will fit such a big group.

I have no clue how staffing levels are but in March some years shut before official school shutting because an inadequate number of staff

Because you could actually fit 60 people in an open plan office.

Ok, so let’s assume we have relaid the office to turn it into an emergency giant classroom.

• Do the 60 kids stay there all day or do we have groups traipsing back and forth to their school?
• Does the same teacher teach them all day? Same subject all day? Or do the teachers also traipse back and forth?
• How much notice do we get to rewrite the timetable? It can’t just be “Mrs Jones isn’t in this morning so Mr Smith will have to take a double class in the office down the road”.

Additional teachers? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Re how independent schools might help

For one thing, if lessons that are shared with 10 or 15 children could be shared with 20, 30 or 40 children, on line, if children are self isolating.

It would be hard to legislate for this. But if there is an education crisis, it would reflect very well on the independent sector, if they worked more with state schools on some of this.

There are initiatives already.

For example, Benenden ( I think it is) have the £35k testing machine that they are also sharing with a couple of local schools. i wonder whether schools, both state and private, could work together on access to testing, ideally with government support for the state side of it, so that pupils can get tests and schools, if they are staying open, are safer.

Pooled on line resources for secondary schools, with wider access, would make a lot of sense, with schools with the same exam boards working together. I'm not a teacher, I don't know how Oak Academy would fit into this.

As a parent who has been educated to degree level and beyond, I'd be quite happy to be checked for a criminal record and run eg a book or science club from home, if that would help at all.

I think we need as a society to stop demanding things of state education and start supporting the schools and staff (if we want to have schools and staff still in place when this is over)

If you actually read the article, the co-principal of Passmores Academy says he is "planning “contingencies on contingencies on contingencies” to keep children in school."

Perhaps the contingency arrangement of 60 pupils in one space would work for them;

About Us -
"Passmores Academy continues to be a vibrant and exciting place to be in every day. We are of course very privileged to have the amazing resources available in our lovely building but that is not the best of us. You will see how we embrace the new and emerging technologies of the 21st Century..."

I'm sorry but it's all a load of bollocks. I don't work with one teacher who would agree to those conditions and I would hope that the parents of my students wouldn't agree either. My school had over 1400 students and only about 5 rooms where this would even be physically possible. It is absolutely appalling the way school children, teachers and schools have been treated during this pandemic. Millions has been spent propping up businesses yet as far as I am aware, not one penny extra has been given to my school to help keep everyone safe. I haven't seen my family since Christmas because they live abroad, we can't all visit my parents in law because that takes us over the rule of 6 yet I can go from classroom to classroom full of 30 odd kids every lesson and all I've got by way of PPE is a pack of cheap wipes! School staff are collateral damage as far as the government is concerned and I hope one day someone is called to account for the mess they have made of this entire situation. They should hang their heads in shame, they could have done so much better than this!! 😠

Agree 100%. I am a parent and would support teachers striking over current conditions let alone this suggestion. I think something like that is needed - schools are not covid safe, the government has ignored best practice which is scientifically based.

Teachers are being expected to take on risks (including ECV teachers) in their workplace that no-one else in society is expected to take - all because the government refuses to fund schools better. Apart from anything else this is short sighted - there is already a teacher recruitment crisis in the state sector.

My daughter's school - with extra money for TAs (I don't know where from) - managed all years back socially distanced in small classes
in June/July. Not a single child was ill - compared to now, back in classes of 30 and they've all been ill in rolling waves.

They could do it again - all they need is some money for the TAs. They've been offered community spaces to use for extra classrooms for free and flat out no from DfE.

It would be relatively easy for my daughter's school - it makes sense for all schools who can do this, to go ahead, but the government won't give them the money.

Not only is it better to prevent spread of covid - but also it's better educationally (not least because they're not all endlessly discussing if Johnny's off with just a cold or is it covid and are they all going to be sent home tomorrow). The schooling in June/July was the best my daughter's ever had.

For one thing, if lessons that are shared with 10 or 15 children could be shared with 20, 30 or 40 children, on line, if children are self isolating.

I have taught in private schools and state schools. I could be wrong, but I don't think state schools would need or want independent schools to be sharing their lessons online. Different kids, different exam boards and courses, different ability levels. If pupils are to be taught online, their own schools are best placed to provide work of a suitable level.

Of course resources shared with 10 pupils can be shared with more. But that applies within schools (the work-setting shared out between members of the department, to be used by all the kids in that year group etc).

Just to say, those saying it’s all fine at your child’s school. I promise you that behind that there is a Head under immense pressure and the teachers are on their knees. I don’t think any of our parents know how tight we are with staff.
Plus- you know the DFE are making us do catch up programmes over and above all this don’t you?
Luckily those of us told by posters “if you don’t like it leave” haven’t done so. Sorry. I’m really bitter. Just bloody exhausted and scared and trying to hide all that from the children and act normal is a pretty big mental effort.
Thank goodness for the kids. They honestly are worth it.

Clav

Perhaps it would work for them?? Did you read the same article?

• He said he “cannot afford” to bring in supply teachers and was therefore planning “contingencies on contingencies on contingencies” to keep children in school.

My worry is that staff absences are only going to accumulate,” he said. “It won’t take much – in certain subjects, it won’t take much at all – for us to have nobody within the school who can teach that subject or even cover and deliver the lessons

That’s not a Head describing a situation that “works for them”. That’s a Head describing a shitshow where they try their best to manage under appalling circumstances. The only reason they are planning the doubled up lessons is because they do not have the money to employ supply staff - and their own staff are having to wait too long for tests.

SmileEachDay
He said he “cannot afford” to bring in supply teachers and was therefore planning “contingencies on contingencies on contingencies” to keep children in school.

I have already quoted from the school website;
"amazing resources available in our lovely building."
The average salary at the school is £42,295 pa - this doesn't sound like a school short of funding.

Are you suggesting that they sell some of the lovely building to pay for supply teachers, Clav?

Are you suggesting that they sell some of the lovely building to pay for supply teachers, Clav?

No, but the "rich array of extra-curricular activities" and "the extensive programme of trips" might not be taking place this year, together with the science practicals which have also been cancelled.

School trips are paid for by parents and extra curricular activities are generally put on for free by teachers or paid for by parents. What savings are to be made there?

We got on line about 2 days after lock down. Our it person is excellent but our place was also very proactive in asking dp etc for tech, who has it, spare lap tops etc.

I know some areas where I work were not able to function as well as our area but it was amazing.
Every day we simply followed the time table. You present, ask can people see it hear it, ask questions, you can even see each individual students work privately. Eg Lucy in maths is on her worksheet, I can see the work sheet being filled in and I can speak or type on the document to support.
I can Google hangout with the teacher that lots of students are stuck on q5, so she can go back to it.

It's perfectly interactive, in many ways more interactive because the students are better behaved than bouncing off each other in class.

Diving into students work via a lap top is much quicker than walking around a class and less intrusive for the student.

It's much easier to see precisely what they are doing rather than trying to hover over a shoulder. In some lesson the teacher taught all through, giving normal breaks, any students not back got chased up!
Some times the teacher gave a quick talk and they all went off line to finish homework or projects...
It was varied.

We managed with tech, WiFi etc.
I used my home tech, many others too.
It's so much safer, the students are engaged and learning.
The majority of each class has the tech at home and the WiFi. The few who didn't were definitely in a minority and any other problems we got around.

• my place isn't private nor grammar but those around us that were, also got on line. I think we were the only state to do so in my area and that was down to many factors.

@Sara2000

Surely they will do online learning again.

Yes I think this is all just preparing us for the probability. 'See what the alternative is' kind of thing. Fuck knows how I'm going to manage doing blended learning with my child when I'm working from home full time, those who did this during the first lockdown haven't been given anywhere near enough acknowledgement or credit.

School trips are paid for by parents and extra curricular activities are generally put on for free by teachers or paid for by parents. What savings are to be made there?

For example - Review of 2018-19 Expenditure and Impact;
"Pupil Premium funding was used to fund trips for disadvantaged pupils in order to raise their aspirations, confidence, self-esteem and support their learning both inside and outside of the curriculum. Among the wide range of curriculum and non-curriculum trips that took place were trips to East Mersea, Cambridge, PGL Swindon, Belgium, Barcelona, Paris, Eden Project, Madame Tussauds, Twickenham, Italy, Iceland, London theatre and many curriculum related English trips."

Clav you don't understand how state schools work do you? Those school trips would have been paid for by parents. Pupil premium money can be used to fund places for disadvantaged kids whose parents cannot pay. Pupil premium money cannot be used to hire supply teachers.

@Clavinova

School trips are paid for by parents and extra curricular activities are generally put on for free by teachers or paid for by parents. What savings are to be made there?

For example - Review of 2018-19 Expenditure and Impact;
"Pupil Premium funding was used to fund trips for disadvantaged pupils in order to raise their aspirations, confidence, self-esteem and support their learning both inside and outside of the curriculum. Among the wide range of curriculum and non-curriculum trips that took place were trips to East Mersea, Cambridge, PGL Swindon, Belgium, Barcelona, Paris, Eden Project, Madame Tussauds, Twickenham, Italy, Iceland, London theatre and many curriculum related English trips."

Quoting pp, you’ve just show how clueless you are about education. 👏🏻

The average salary at the school is £42,295 pa - this doesn't sound like a school short of funding

Ummm. Are you suggesting that all the teachers donate some of their salary to fund supply staff?

Quoting pp, you’ve just show how clueless you are about education

itsa who is it you think is clueless? It’s not clear?