Class sizes may have to rise to 60

[Baboonballoon]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/27/class-sizes-in-uk-may-rise-to-60-as-schools-struggle-to-cover-for-self-isolating-teachers

This is so depressing and the government’s statement at the end is pathetic - why didn’t they see this coming and allocate additional funding for schools to pay for additional teachers?

Aside from the fact that we don’t have spaces big enough for 60, and it’s very hard to teach 30 properly from the front, let alone 60, I don’t see how merged lessons would work in secondary. Maybe for Maths, where they’re all being taught the same subject at the same time (because of setting) but how does it work when one class is timetabled for Geography, another for French, another for Art...

When we merged classes before lockdown, it was just for babysitting.

@FromTheAshes

There is actually a pretty large pool of supply teachers who would love the chance to help. Schools are quite rightly wary of engaging supply, who wants someone who's already been to for different schools that week? But if supply teachers could be allocated a single school, act as floating support within the school when there is a full compliment of permanent teachers then step up when needed during absences that would be more manageable.

Sadly, supply rates are so appalling (frequently less than M1, sometimes as low as £50/day) that the govt would need to step up and throw some money at the situation.

There's so little recognition and understanding of the position teachers are in and the stress they are having to function under. People were quick to understand the situation in the NHS but even after months of homeschooling there is still a serious lack of understanding from both parents and govt of the situation in schools now.

This is such a helpful response, if only the govt would listen to people like you!

I have said this on another thread, but our isolating teachers are teaching via google meets on large screens at the front of the classrooms with a ta or crowd control in the actual classroom.

Personally I would support ‘blended learning’, part time, with provision for key workers as previously. This has seemed the only sustainable approach from the beginning - especially with inadequate testing contracted to private companies.

@Playdoughbum

Lots of us did try to say that just going back with no real back up plan would be a disaster. Where are all those who told us to just suck it up now? Those who smacked down all our concerns with “children need to go back and it needs to be normal”. This is one occasion where “I told you so” tastes very very sour.

Gone strangely quiet

You know schools where specifically told that they where not to use other spaces, like church halls and sports halls to facilitate teaching it's there in black and white in the directions for school openings in September from the government. They where also told not to roatioal teaching, having some students at school and some at home. Doing any of these measures or preparing for them was strictly forbidden by the government themselves. It's all there in black and white on the schools reopening documents for September.

They back tracked very slightly at the last minute with there emergency plan. The Friday before schools opened as typical to as a last resort we may see schools closing for two weeks at a time then openings for two weeks in rotation if things get really bad.

Wicked in that scenario how do the kids interact with the teacher? I’m trying to picture how it works.

You know schools where specifically told that they where not to use other spaces, like church halls and sports halls to facilitate teaching

Yes, they were specifically told not to make any plans that required extra space. It was totally bizarre, and they had to backtrack slightly when churches complained that they weren’t being allowed to let church schools use church buildings for free.

@noblegiraffe

Wicked in that scenario how do the kids interact with the teacher? I’m trying to picture how it works.

It is google meets, like skype. I am happy to pm you a link to the local school blog (public website) that shows photos of how its done. (cos you are a regular poster and I recognise you! )

Sorry, I mean I think there is a laptop that is shared to a bigger screen. The kids do group work with laptops for smaller groups. The link to the classroom to dial in is shared each morning for the isolating kids.

it is google meets, like skype.

They tried that at my school, with all the kids in the class using laptops, but we didn’t have the network capacity. Now the shielding teacher is projected on the screen at the front of the class. It’s not very interactive!

Impossible. Our rooms will not hold 60.

We're full up when we get to 30 in a class; built for that size. And that's with no social distancing ability within the classroom.

It won't happen. It's just not physically possible.

Now the shielding teacher is projected on the screen at the front of the class. It’s not very interactive!

That’s what I’m picturing, I can see the class being able to see the teacher, but I can’t see the teacher being able to see the class. How can you teach when the kids can’t ask or answer questions when needed?

It's just not physically possible.

Goddard in the article is using the hall, set up like it is for exams.

We could have class sizes of a hundred+ like that. More if the desks weren’t spaced out exam-style. We sometimes do walking talking mocks in that set-up but it requires a lot of support to get the kids settled and working.

Lots of supply teachers out of work at the moment but that would take money

@noblegiraffe I have pm you the link.

We sometimes do walking talking mocks in that set-up but it requires a lot of support to get the kids settled and working.

It also takes planning. Not “Oh, Mrs Onions isn’t in this morning so her class is joining yours in the hall for period 1.”

@HipTightOnions

it is google meets, like skype.

They tried that at my school, with all the kids in the class using laptops, but we didn’t have the network capacity. Now the shielding teacher is projected on the screen at the front of the class. It’s not very interactive!

Our teachers can see the class? I am not sure of the technical aspects tbh! Not all the kids have laptops tho!

I think the teachers are finding it hard to envisage because they are really hung up on the idea of the children recieving effective education when in school.

@Racoonworld

Where would they get the additional teachers from? There’s a recruitment shortage!

Exactly. I can’t imagine many school will have the space to fit 60 children in. The school hall would be the only area.

Even if they wanted to make classes of 60 kids, they couldn’t.

Our teachers can see the class? I am not sure of the technical aspects tbh! Not all the kids have laptops tho!

I imagine you would need a camera trained on the class - and a good microphone if they are to ask/answer questions.

We are a “bring your own device” school so already make quite heavy use of our network, but that volume of live audio/video links was way too much! (I’m not sure anyone had asked IT support beforehand.)

@SmileEachDay

What’s the other option, school closures? Would you prefer that?

The other option is have a testing system that actually fucking works.

No. Italian style safety measures would be the best other option.

• take over underused local buildings for schools
• teach in the open air where possible
• recruit (and fund) more TAs
• proper social distancing and PPE

etc.

oh and of course we need proper testing, ideally not outsourced to SERCO or similar and not headed by an incompetent crony

Few classrooms would hold 60. Schools don't have enough hall-size rooms to hold all the kids in large groups. Teaching classes of that size would be impractical even if you did have rooms big enough for them. Behaviour problems in lessons would escalate massively.

Even if the government did provide the money for extra teachers, there aren't enough teachers to recruit. The only answers are blended learning or school closures. Personally I'd far, far rather my secondary age dc had blended learning/rotas than have them in classes of 60 or being 'taught' by non-specialist supply teachers. That's nothing against supply teachers btw - I actually do supply teaching myself.

But yeah, all we need is a 'can-do attitude' to sort it out to everyone's full satisfaction, I'm sure...

Thanks, Wicked, I see from your link that it’s primary which will make a difference - they tend to have better access to tech, and the TA supervising the class will be someone that can actually help the kids and who the teacher knows.

In secondary my classes would be all over the place so would require someone running across site to set up laptops and log in while Y11 kick off. They also possibly wouldn’t be much use at supporting solving quadratics or whatever.

@MillieEpple

I think the teachers are finding it hard to envisage because they are really hung up on the idea of the children recieving effective education when in school.

No, I’m finding it hard to envisage because effective teaching is really interactive.

I already found remote teaching via Teams difficult because of lack of response from the kids (most with cameras off and on mute) and the Desmos software really helped with this but requires each kid to have a laptop.