Is it really worth all this?

[Dustballs]

What are we shutting down for? What are we trying to save?

I don't understand what the purpose of this is anymore.

And this - "I think the government handling of all this is just a PR exercise. They’re doing certain things to make it look like they’re doing something whilst actually not doing a lot (to slow it)."

Why is the above happening? None of what they're doing is working and it's almost as if that is intentional.

Marsha
what would I want

Local expertise which the UK has but was sidelined
coordinating testing tracking tracing from February onwards.

A simple direction to each Local Authority properly funded
to keep R below 1 in their area

in the NHS
absolute cancellation of all hostile environment visa rules
backed up with
confirmation that nursing degrees will go from loans to grants with immediate effect

in the care home sector
Allow homes to close their doors and decide what works in their area

Its not rocket science
its just governance

You’re spot on about the government going to a lot of trouble to appear to be doing something. The muzzles of dubious effectiveness were a case in point: easy headlines, no investment needed by government, a handy tool for divide and conquer, shrines to the virus that people have to wear on their faces. What did the government have to lose, apart possibly from criminals being harder to identify on cctv?

And Covid marshals: have they appeared yet, or have their unicorns got Covid?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8774141/Coronavirus-UK-Lockdown-kill-75-000-thats-OFFICIAL-projection.html

Lockdown 'may kill 75,000' - that's the OFFICIAL projection of the deadly toll of Covid restrictions including missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll? 42,000

You don’t go from a position of men whispering in dark corridors (Vallance on Herd Immunity) to an overt policy of virus elimination imo.

So yes, I do think it is a government front of sorts, they don’t want the ugly scenes of people dying in NHS corridors, but have probably still conceded that once the genie is out of the bottle, there is realistically no way it’s going back in.

Which, to be fair, is probably true.

Because what are these ‘successful’ Trace & Test countries going to do if there is no vaccine for the foreseeable? Build a wall like Trump would & become isolationist nations indefinitely whilst the virus has proliferated around the rest of the globe?

Just relayed a lot of this thread to DH.

He thinks the chaos is being created on purpose. All the mixed messages - so that government can blame us/the public for messing things up.

I'm not sure why they'd want to do this - as it will directly lead to the economy failing even more.

But what we do agree on is the constant feeling of unease we're getting. To do with the unexpected nature of the virus. But more so to do with the way that there is always an undercurrent of something coming with the messages from government. It's hard to put a finger on what this is. But it feels malevolent. It's unnerving. And we feel as though we're being manipulated - Government has some end goal and it's not to protect our country from Covid.

Someone worked out that on the basis of Whitty and Vallance's midweek figures, all human life in Britain would end shortly after the new year, if the rates kept doubling in the way they suggested!

@Dustballs

Just relayed a lot of this thread to DH.

He thinks the chaos is being created on purpose. All the mixed messages - so that government can blame us/the public for messing things up.

I'm not sure why they'd want to do this - as it will directly lead to the economy failing even more.

But what we do agree on is the constant feeling of unease we're getting. To do with the unexpected nature of the virus. But more so to do with the way that there is always an undercurrent of something coming with the messages from government. It's hard to put a finger on what this is. But it feels malevolent. It's unnerving. And we feel as though we're being manipulated - Government has some end goal and it's not to protect our country from Covid.

the first priority of any government is to stay in government

I realise that Alec. And that has always been the case.

But there's something else going on here and now isn't there? Brexit may be part of it. It has to been tangled up with all of this in some way.

This government is nothing like one we've ever had before. And the feeling it leaves me with isn't a nice one.

the first priority of any government is to stay in government
Indeed and in order to stay in government they must maintain their legitimacy, hence the need for the crisis to be the fault of the people and not the government

Just relayed a lot of this thread to DH.

He thinks the chaos is being created on purpose. All the mixed messages - so that government can blame us/the public for messing things up.

Another expert. The husband. 🤣 Fucking hell.

Oh no DH is no expert. I don't agree with him in the bit you chose to quote. But I'm no expert either.

We're not seeing many other people at the moment - as instructed - so I mentioned DH because he's one of the few real life people I can discuss this with at the moment.

Sorry.

@Dustballs

I realise that Alec. And that has always been the case.

But there's something else going on here and now isn't there? Brexit may be part of it. It has to been tangled up with all of this in some way.

This government is nothing like one we've ever had before. And the feeling it leaves me with isn't a nice one.

opportunist predatory exploitative types will instinctively rush in when there's a crisis because they smell a chance to make things go their way ......and in a big way that you couldn't pull off in normal times. It's like a crucible, energy levels are high and new things can be created, opportunities will arise that will never be seen again Outcomes are also much harder to predict and control but the hunger for power draws them in regardless

Oh no DH is no expert. I don't agree with him in the bit you chose to quote. But I'm no expert either.

I know. That’s my point.

@AlecTrevelyan006

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8774141/Coronavirus-UK-Lockdown-kill-75-000-thats-OFFICIAL-projection.html

Lockdown 'may kill 75,000' - that's the OFFICIAL projection of the deadly toll of Covid restrictions including missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll? 42,000

Over the next 5 years. The same document also stressed that had nothing been done to stop the spread of the virus in March, 400,000 people could have died of Covid. And if the NHS had been overrun, this figure might have even soared to 1.4 million.

@AlecTrevelyan006

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8774141/Coronavirus-UK-Lockdown-kill-75-000-thats-OFFICIAL-projection.html

Lockdown 'may kill 75,000' - that's the OFFICIAL projection of the deadly toll of Covid restrictions including missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll? 42,000

you believe the Mail!?

Heffaloomia is right.

A crisis draws in those looking to exploit it for a profit.

Jacob Rees Mogg’s dad wrote a guide to doing so.

Follow the money and the private contracts awarded to unfit firms.

a crisis is 🥳
For those guys 😡

Well cancer screenings and medical appointments will be greatly reduced if COVID spreads and more nhs staff go off isolating or are diverted to caring for more people in hospital (rates are rising but there is a lag from cases). also - would you be happy, if you were in hospital with a broken bone, to Be in a ward with COVID patients who may transmit virus to you and increase your operative risk? If you would prefer for this not to be the case, then you should understand that the hospital must put in place certain rules (eg on separating covid positive from other patients, spacing people out in waiting areas, rules on staff waiting for tests if symptomatic or living with a symptomatic person).

The difference between this virus and others is it spreads v quickly. Surely you saw what happened in Italy and Wuhan? Well what’s to stop that happening here if we just go about our lives?

The other effects of lockdown could be mitigated if the govt chose to - because their time course is probably longer than covid spreading. Also I’m pretty sure in nz, aus, Singapore, Taiwan, japan, s Korea, people have much more normal lives because their govt is on top of the virus - not eliminated, but well controlled

No. It’s a massive over reaction. The virus is clearly not as deadly as originally thought now that we’re testing more people in the community rather than just the hospitalised cases. I’m not against continuing with sensible precautions - hand washing, wearing masks in enclosed areas and general social distancing but I think locking down and preventing people from getting together with friends and family (even in small groups) is completely disproportionate response and is having a much worse impact than the virus itself. If every case and hospitalisation due to flu was reported every year people’s anxiety would be through the roof.

@bumbleymummy

No. It’s a massive over reaction. The virus is clearly not as deadly as originally thought now that we’re testing more people in the community rather than just the hospitalised cases. I’m not against continuing with sensible precautions - hand washing, wearing masks in enclosed areas and general social distancing but I think locking down and preventing people from getting together with friends and family (even in small groups) is completely disproportionate response and is having a much worse impact than the virus itself. If every case and hospitalisation due to flu was reported every year people’s anxiety would be through the roof.

I can only think you haven't watched any of the footage from ICUs, or read reports from frontline doctors, because this opinion is just so massively incorrect.

Covid is nothing like flu.

Haven't read all the posts, we are all tired of restrictions but, we can't let the virus to go rampant to build herd immunity.
To do so, 70% of population would have to get it. So let's say 47 million catch it in uk and of those 5% die, that's 235000 people dying. Plus nhs wouldn't be able to cope, so we would get even more secondary deaths, how many more people would die?
Also, long term effects of catching this virus could be kidney damage, chronic fatigue, damage in the heart tissue ( even in mild sufferers of the virus,) increase of heart failure, long standing damage to the lungs, could lead to strokes, seizures, and increase of developing Parkinson's and Alzheimer disease, so OP I wouldn't be so keen on wanting to catch it.

We need to listen more to our scientist comunity and health advisors, not to our politicians.
In my opinion if anything, this virus has been downplayed and it will be a long, long winter ( oh, and I so wish I were wrong)

Is it nonsense though? Research suggests that only18% of people fully quarantine after developing symptoms and only 11% after being told by track and trace that they have been in contact with a confirmed case. DCs bubble were told to isolate due to a confirmed case, one girl has been out and about going shopping with her mum and another has just been to have her nails done. Yep a nation of totally responsible people......I'll jog on

Yes it is nonsense. Every nation has examples of people not sticking to the rules. We are not unique and different in the world. Human beings are the same everywhere.

It's true that the government are constantly blaming the population for messing it up. Matt Hancock does all the time. And lots of people here have swallowed this narrative and are going on about people going to nail bars.

We need to listen more to our scientist comunity and health advisors

But not the ones who say that lockdowns are not the way forward and that this virus is practically harmless for the vast majority of people?