Are we allowed 7 people in our house in different rooms?

[Firefliess]

DSD and her BF have come to stay this weekend. We also have DD and DSS and me and DH at home, so that makes 6 of us. DD wants her BF to stay over tomorrow night. I can't figure out whether that's allowed or not. It would mean 7 people in the house, but in no sense would we be "gathering" DD and her BF would get in late and go straight to her room. Rest of us probably we wouldn't even see him. Is that allowed? Or are people considered to be "gathering" simply by being in the same house? We're in England by the way and not in an area with any local lockdown

OMG seriously?! They’ve been absolutely clear on guidance. You should know full well there isn’t allowed to be 7 people on a house unless you all live together 🙄

Please stop looking for loopholes. Very simply if we have fewer contacts the fewer cases of CV19 will develop.The fewer cases of CV19 the fewer people will need hospital treatment and fewer people will die.
The rules make no sense at all from the perspective of the individual but from a population stand point they help to reduce the amount of contacts in the whole population.
There will always be loopholes in the law for something like this but the spirit of the law is there to protect all of us as a species not you as a selfish individual.

I agree the law isnt clear but surely in this situation it is better to err on the side of caution

For everyones sake. Say the DSD and BF came down with Coronavirus - DD boyfriend would he have to self isolate given he stayed overnight? Then if he didnt he could transmit it to others.

Then in the morning are you going to make sure that there are no interactions with each other?

I really hope that none of the people who are using the definition of 'gathering' to justify more than 6 people meeting have ever criticised Dominic Cummings for his actions. This is exactly what he did- he didn't technically break the guidelines, he just interpreted them differently to most people (with a conscience). That still hasn't stopped the press and the members of the public from baying for blood and demanding that he lose his job. Claiming the rules don't count on a technicality doesn't make it morally the right thing to do.

We all know how to count to 6 and we all know exactly why we are supposed to limit how many people we come into contact with. We also all know that the rules seem a little contradictory because the government are trying to prioritise keeping schools open and people not losing their jobs.

@Chaotic45

OP it sounds like you've decided that you are special and as such you can interpret the rules in whichever way suits you best.

You must be very important.

Well, no. OP is interpreting the law in accordance with what it actually says, and she is supported both on this thread and elsewhere by informed legal opinion; although it is agreed that, because the guidance differs from the wording of the law, it's not easy to interpret.

I would suggest that people on here who think their assumptions about interpretation are inevitably correct - and get aggressive with it - are the ones who think they're "very important".

Maybe they should just say no more than six people in a house. Introducing gathering was unnecessary.

What about families with 5 kids?

@Pobblebonk

And that attitude is exactly why this pandemic isnt going away. Everybody finding excuses.

No, you really cannot interpret what the law says on that basis. If the law allows this, then no amount of bleating about "excuses" or the pandemic can change that. Lots of people on here may want the law to impose a blanket ban on having more than six people under one roof, but that is not what it says. The pandemic is not a licence to throw basic legal principles into the bin.

I agree with this ( the second not the first)

I also think in tho op's situation that asking for things like cleaning the bathroom or using a dedicated one, opening the bedroom window on leaving, not going in communal rooms ( even if no-one is there) etc will mitigate any ( probably v.small) risk of transmission with others in the household

If your DD/BF agreeed to do these things and given that it seems likely it wouldn't be against the law , I'd say yes to her request.

The gov't deliberately chose the word "gathering". If you wanted to make it clear, you would say "No people may enter a private house (including the garden) if that takes the total number of people in that house to more than six (unless you're Dominic Cummings)".

Gathering is defined in the legislation here : there is a gathering when two or more people are present together in the same place in order to engage in any form of social interaction with each other, or to undertake any other activity with each other;

It will then come down to whether you can be present together in the same place if you're in separate parts of the house. I would argue not, particularly as there is an intent requirement there too ( in order to engage in any form of social interaction ) as the bf has no intention of socially interacting with the other household members.

BUT....
Others rightly point out that a strict interpretation of the law is only half the issue, the other half is the moral imperative on us all to follow the spirit of the law, not just the letter of it. (Something any regulatory lawyers will tell you is an entertainment in itself, and something that Dominic Cummings and Suella Bravermann clearly don't agree with).

@Sertchgi123

It’s six, what’s difficult to understand?

Whether two extra people who never interact with the other five constitutes a "gathering". You cannot fixate on the number whilst ignoring the fact that there is nothing saying you cannot have more than six people under one roof. Why are so many people ignoring that?

@toobusytothink

OMG seriously?! They’ve been absolutely clear on guidance. You should know full well there isn’t allowed to be 7 people on a house unless you all live together 🙄

The guidance is not the law.

What about families with 5 kids? you can’t have guests if everyone is at home.

Unless they are in a support bubble it's not allowed and it's completely bloody ridiculous.

You can't have your kids and their significant others in your home... what next?

@GardenSanctuary

What about families with 5 kids?

They have made this pretty clear, obviously if you have 5 or more kids then it’s fine as it’s all the same household (not mixing households) but it does mean you can’t have people coming over because then your mixing 2 households of more than 6 people.

The rules are actually clear, the maximum is 6 for an overnight stay unless everyone is part of your support bubble. This not the case.

To give a different angle. R is currently above 1 so we all have to reduce the number of close contacts we have by some percentage (maybe 25%). Is this contributing to that?

@movingonup20 no, the rules are not clear - there is nothing in the legislation mentioning overnight stays.

@Pobblebonk you're right that the guidance isn't the law, but the guidance is based on the actual law.

Pobblebonk I thought the rule of 6 was actually legislation?

Anyway, it's up to you OP. The world won't come crashing down if you say yes to this, but it is against the rule of 6 and the guidance on SD.

The thing is though, if we all go against the law/guidance in little ways like this, each of those little ways could help spread the virus and make things worse. This is why ButSweden would not have worked here, we are just not as community minded.

This is the law. Guidance is not the law.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/986/made

Rule of six is law:

www.gov.uk/government/news/rule-of-six-comes-into-effect-to-tackle-coronavirus

candour, that is a link to a press release so not to the law. My link is to the rule of 6 law.

@dreamingofbedtime How was going for a drive to barnard castle "to test my eyes" remotely following the covid laws let alone road traffic law?

@Xenia - consolidated legislation is here which make the law a bit easier to follow! www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684/contents

Six is an arbitrary number, OP. I would let your DD's boyfriend stay too.

I know there's a load of frothing about "you'll be reported", and "you'll be fined" - but who is actually going to report you? I wouldn't, if you were my neighbour or friend.

It's also odd, the way that people are bleating about "this is why Covid isn't going away".

Covid isn't going anywhere in a hurry, whatever we do, any more than flu, colds, Norovirus, Rotavirus etc are. We need to accept that and get on with living our lives.

We are all going to die at some point, although there seems to be a huge number of people on MN who think that immortality is both possible and desirable.