Are we allowed 7 people in our house in different rooms?

[Firefliess]

DSD and her BF have come to stay this weekend. We also have DD and DSS and me and DH at home, so that makes 6 of us. DD wants her BF to stay over tomorrow night. I can't figure out whether that's allowed or not. It would mean 7 people in the house, but in no sense would we be "gathering" DD and her BF would get in late and go straight to her room. Rest of us probably we wouldn't even see him. Is that allowed? Or are people considered to be "gathering" simply by being in the same house? We're in England by the way and not in an area with any local lockdown

@notalwaysalondoner

I’m almost sure the technical answer is no as you are not one household and it is more than six. But I would 100% let him stay if he wasn’t interacting with anyone else and there was no one vulnerable. Depends how comfortable you are with being a rule breaker...

This is exactly the attitude that bugs me. It doesn't depend on how comfortable you are being a rule breaker, it depends on how comfortable you are being a selfish fucker.

We even have to count the 3 week old grandson in our 6!

I don't think the OP is in any doubt that 7 is more than 6. A sensible question has been asked, and a situation given where if the question was 'does this increase the risk of COVID to the people who will not see the DD's BF?' the answer would be 'marginal if at all, if sensible precautions are taken'.

But we obviously also need to obey the law.

There are situations that are legal that do not increase risk - great!
There are situations that are legal that do increase risk - your choice how cautious you want to be for your sake and everyone else's.
There are situations that are illegal that do not increase risk (eg 4 mothers walking together pushing prams) - I wouldn't break the law but some people might asses risk differently.
There are situations that are illegal and do increase risk - most sensible people wouldn't do them, and nobody should.

The OP is trying to work out which category she is in.

The rest of this post is a copy from my post on the other thread I linked to:

In a thread where people are referring multiple times to the actual legislation, it would help if people could say why they believe it to be legal or illegal.

So far we have:
Illegal because they are all in the same 'place' (house and garden) vs
Legal because the legislation refers to gathering and they are not all of the same gathering.

Any other reasons people think it may be illegal/legal?

So we need to ask:
If you think it is illegal then how do you read the legislation definitely saying gathering = everyone on the private property?
If you think it is legal why do you think that everyone on the private property should not be considered part of the gathering?

@Pangwin

I hope all the people debating what actually constitutes 6 people, and those trying to find loopholes to make more than 6 people still equal 6 people, aren't the same people who will be moaning when schools shut, or they lose their jobs, or when the supermarkets run out of toilet paper again, or when hospitals are so overrun that their desperately needed surgery is cancelled. This virus situation is going to get worse if we keep mixing with too many people. My family have been following the rules from the start and we're still taking sensible precautions now but I am getting sick to fucking back teeth of others flouting common sense because they think they are something special and exempt from even the most basic rules. 6 equals 6! The level of stupid on here is unbelievable.

It's gatherings of up to six. Nobody or trying to make 6 more than 6. There will be no gathering of more than 6.

Unless your house is 'COVID secure' like a community centre, cafe etc, then no. You would need to wear masks unless eating and drinking, sanitise hands between each room and have a QR poster for everyone to scan when they arrive. Plus, would have to clean down everything used or touched after each person - chairs, light switches, door handles.
So in other words, no. 6 people maximum in your house. Including babies and children.

@gavisconismyfriend

Isn’t it 6 from no more than 2 households? In which case 7 from 3 households would break the rules on 2 counts. Couldn’t your DD stay at her boyfriends?

No In England it can be 6 from 6 households.

It's amazing how many people are having difficulty with this.

If you can count to 6 you should be able to figure it out.

People are having difficulties with understanding what is meant by "gathering" (how do you "gather" with someone if you don't come into any contact with them) - not how to count up to 6.

If I'm in a group of 6 in the park, sat 2m from another group of 6, this is allowed? So why does the same rule not apply in the house (if we don't share toilets, kitchens or any other space)?

No-one is under any doubt about how many 6 is.

It's the definition of 'a gathering' that people are arguing about. If a person is not part of the gathering they do not count as part of the 6.

So i have 10 rooms in my house. I'm going to invite 59 people over and we'll have 6 in each room. All from different households. At some points we may swap the 6 amongst rooms. At no point though will we have more than 6 in a room though. All good?

It's amazing how many people are having difficulty with this.

Quite.....

If you can count to 6 you should be able to figure it out.

You appear to have missed the point completely

No because you are suggesting mingling, which is clearly not allowed. You won't also have sufficient staircases etc to facilitate moving around and not coming into close contact. Not at all the same as the example in the OP.

@EarlGreyJenny

So i have 10 rooms in my house. I'm going to invite 59 people over and we'll have 6 in each room. All from different households. At some points we may swap the 6 amongst rooms. At no point though will we have more than 6 in a room though. All good?

Whataboutery need not apply here. We are discussing one single situation as outlined in the OP. What you do with your 10 rooms is nothing to do with what OP does in her scenario

Your statement could easily be applied to the OP though? They might meet on the stairs? It's just breaking the rules in a more limited and specific way.

Your statement could easily be applied to the OP though? They might meet on the stairs? It's just breaking the rules in a more limited and specific way.

Maybe the OP's house has 2 sets of stairs? Or they could assign "stair usage times to each group?" Or (as my Covid secure workplace requires) they could just shout up/down the stairs before they venture onto them?

Maybe mine does too? I could have people move around without them crossing over. Are we honestly saying the daughter isn't going to go and get a cup of tea from the kitchen with her parents or something. There will be mingling. It's no different, I have just exaggerated the scenario.

People on here are so harsh.

There are grey areas with these rules, which is why it is not always clear.

In my situation......

I am my sisters childcare (she is a teacher and must work). Our older children are in the same class at school so they socialise every day.

And yet, our families numbers add up to 9 which is prohibited. And yet all of us spend every day which a member of the other family. So we aren't allowed to meet up??

Sometimes the rules are difficult to interpret in certain situations so people feel that they should ask, and yet you get people screaming at each other on Mumsnet that they can't count!

EarlGreyJenny, I was thinking the same. So I can have 5 of my friends while my dh is having 5 of his?
I use front door and use up stairs bathroom. No one comes down until dh's friends are gone. Make sure I don't need to come to get drinks or snacks.
Dh uses back door, use down stairs bathroom. don't come upstairs.
Make sure we never mix.

If I do this, even though there are 12 people in the house, it's allowed?

Too confusing to think too much. Better to stick to rule of 6.

It’s six, what’s difficult to understand?

Whether two extra people who never interact with the other five constitutes a "gathering". You cannot fixate on the number whilst ignoring the fact that there is nothing saying you cannot have more than six people under one roof. Why are so many people ignoring that?

Words fail me!

Oh fgs @Kungfupanda67 there has to be a limit of the number of people. Boris said 6. Not my rule. I'm sticking to it, and getting irritated by those who are looking for loopholes.

The OP is using semantics as a loophole. That was my point. But the more people you have in a household the more possible
contacts you are bringing together.

If everyone twisted all the rules around we would just get nowhere with this at all. I can see why they put the limit on 6 as I keep seeing people saying 7 or 8 are fine. If they had put 8 as the limit people would then just have said well 10 are just fine. If they had put 12 people would say 14 or 15 is just fine.
Perhaps they should just have been so explicit so that everybody could have understood and said "anybody in the rule of 6 counts who physically comes through your front or back door, patio doors and all windows. But then you would have had some idiots saying what about if I come down the chimney.

@ScubaSteven yes he said gatherings of six - you cannot gather with someone in a different part of the building without sharing any facilities and not coming face to face.

@Firefliess

Ok Care to elaborate?

Very simple. 7 people is not 6. and no exemptions apply to your situation. Tell DD to go to BF's house or stay somewhere else.

For those thinking you are allowed to have separate gatherings in the same house that don't meet - apart from the air not observing your restrictions and distributing the virus around your house, if your neighbours notice you have more than 6 in your house and call the police, do you think the police will agree with your reasoning? If not, you probably know you are breaking the law and just trying to justify your law-breaking to yourself while knowing you could not justify it to a police officer.

Honestly it’s really not that difficult. The answer, according to the new rules is no. However, if you want to bend those rules and have extra people over and you are happy with your decision then do it. Nothing is going to change the fact it’s not allowed, semantics or no semantics and certainly you will not get a resounding yes from MNetters.